tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
From: Abon Lais
Date: 2009-05-10 18:29:15
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
abon ti 3teng-po
Re: Re: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
From: Lim
Date: 2009-05-10 18:37:42
Chheh-phaiN7-a2
Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi.
Khai
----- Original Message -----
From: Abon Lais
To: ;
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM
Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
abon ti 3teng-po
Re: Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
From: Sêng-hiân
Date: 2009-05-11 10:38:23
Guá tha̍k tsit 4 jī sī "tiong-kok kah sai", ì-sù khah sîng sī: "China and the lion"…
On 5月10日, 下午6時37分, "Lim " wrote:
Chheh-phaiN7-a2 Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi.
Khai
----- Original Message ----- From: Abon Lais To: ; Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
abon ti 3teng-po
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
From: Hak-khiam TiuN
Date: 2009-05-11 10:56:57
甲jia Hoa-gi e hoat-im, 獅sai Tai-gi hoat-im koh ka pian-cho te 2 siaN.Hak-khiam2009/5/11 Sêng-hiân :
Guá tha̍k tsit 4 jī sī "tiong-kok kah sai", ì-sù khah sîng sī: "China and the lion"…
On 5月10日, 下午6時37分, "Lim " wrote:
Chheh-phaiN7-a2 Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi.
Khai
----- Original Message ----- From: Abon Lais To: ; Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
abon ti 3teng-po
Re: Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
From: Sêng-hiân
Date: 2009-05-11 13:23:29
Guá teh siūⁿ…tshin-tshiūⁿ tsit khuán sú-īng Tâi-gí ê hong-sik (īng pháiⁿ-thiaⁿ uē mā--lâng, 中國吃大便), kap tsin suî-ì ê bûn-jī sú-iōng (Huâ- gí Tâi-gí tho̍k-im thàu-lām tshìn-tshái sú-iōng), tuì Tâi-gí-bûn ūn- tōng, tāu-té sī hó iah-sī bái?
On 5月11日, 上午10時56分, Hak-khiam TiuN wrote:
甲jia Hoa-gi e hoat-im, 獅sai Tai-gi hoat-im koh ka pian-cho te 2 siaN.
Hak-khiam
2009/5/11 Sêng-hiân :
Guá tha̍k tsit 4 jī sī "tiong-kok kah sai", ì-sù khah sîng sī: "China and the lion"…
On 5月10日, 下午6時37分, "Lim " wrote:
Chheh-phaiN7-a2 Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi.
Khai
----- Original Message ----- From: Abon Lais To: ; Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
abon ti 3teng-po
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
From: google 阿凱
Date: 2009-05-12 05:09:11
Goa jin-ui che chiu-si "wordplay". bo-iau-kin.
- Ko-jin siu-iong, ti-hui bo-kang. Tai-chiong ma-si an-ni, su-iau e alleviation bo-kang.
- Han-ji "pun-toe" tioh bo kou-teng e thak-im. Kan-na hong-pian nia.
- Lan ai kau-iok lan e TOL m-thang choe lang e lou-chai. Kui kang kan-na e-hiau 請 謝謝 對不起, lan ma ai kau-iok beh an-choaN ma, an-choaN kiau khah sui-khui, khah sim-sek, ji-chhiaN lan ka-ki lang chiah khoaN u. In 中國甲獅 chit-pian , goa siuN hoan-tui-e eng-kai chiu-si lan kho-pi e colonized TOL. In TKL eng-kai si bo chun-bun tioh.
Khai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sêng-hiân" To: "Tai-gu-bang" Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:23 PM Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Guá teh siūⁿ…tshin-tshiūⁿ tsit khuán sú-īng Tâi-gí ê hong-sik (īng pháiⁿ-thiaⁿ uē mā--lâng, 中國吃大便), kap tsin suî-ì ê bûn-jī sú-iōng (Huâ- gí Tâi-gí tho̍k-im thàu-lām tshìn-tshái sú-iōng), tuì Tâi-gí-bûn ūn- tōng, tāu-té sī hó iah-sī bái?
On 5月11日, 上午10時56分, Hak-khiam TiuN wrote:
甲jia Hoa-gi e hoat-im, 獅sai Tai-gi hoat-im koh ka pian-cho te 2 siaN.
Hak-khiam
2009/5/11 Sêng-hiân :
Guá tha̍k tsit 4 jī sī "tiong-kok kah sai", ì-sù khah sîng sī: "China and the lion"…
On 5月10日, 下午6時37分, "Lim " wrote:
Chheh-phaiN7-a2 Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi.
Khai
----- Original Message ----- From: Abon Lais To: ; Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
abon ti 3teng-po
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
From: Lau Seng-hian
Date: 2009-05-11 14:46:01
Tsit學期讀後殖民理論，關係「語言使用」ê後殖民策略，有1項kap tse相關，就是「F-word」ê書寫，比論：James Kelman ê How late it was, how late內底大量使用英語ê "fuck"等等ê tshoh-kàn-kiāu iah歹聽話，koh加上對英語語詞kap文法ê扭曲，來達成反殖民、對殖民者kap殖民語抗議ê目的。
換1句話講：國外ê後殖民作家khah濟是the̍h「殖民語」來ka蹧躂、ka變形、ka侮辱，用殖民語來tshoh-kàn-kiāu、來講歹聽話，thang損蕩殖民ê語言頂ē位結構。
咱ê做法khah稀罕，tú-tú kap人顛倒píng，咱是the̍h咱已經hō͘人蹧躂兼鄙相ê母語來做「F-word」ê後殖民抗議，若正式ê聲明kap立場表達，suah顛倒khah tsia̍p使用殖民者ê語言，寫kah suí-khuì koh tau-sau，án-ne ê做法，kám m̄是teh助贊現此時gōng大眾對殖民語kap母語1 ê kuân 1 ê低、水準無siâng ê錯誤印象？
Hō͘ ta̍k-ê參考。
2009/5/12 google 阿凱
Goa jin-ui che chiu-si "wordplay". bo-iau-kin.
- Ko-jin siu-iong, ti-hui bo-kang. Tai-chiong ma-si an-ni, su-iau e alleviation bo-kang.
- Han-ji "pun-toe" tioh bo kou-teng e thak-im. Kan-na hong-pian nia.
- Lan ai kau-iok lan e TOL m-thang choe lang e lou-chai. Kui kang kan-na e-hiau 請 謝謝 對不起, lan ma ai kau-iok beh an-choaN ma, an-choaN kiau khah sui-khui, khah sim-sek, ji-chhiaN lan ka-ki lang chiah khoaN u.
In 中國甲獅 chit-pian , goa siuN hoan-tui-e eng-kai chiu-si lan kho-pi e colonized TOL. In TKL eng-kai si bo chun-bun tioh.
Khai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sêng-hiân"
To: "Tai-gu-bang" Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:23 PM Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Guá teh siūⁿ…tshin-tshiūⁿ tsit khuán sú-īng Tâi-gí ê hong-sik (īng pháiⁿ-thiaⁿ uē mā--lâng, 中國吃大便), kap tsin suî-ì ê bûn-jī sú-iōng (Huâ- gí Tâi-gí tho̍k-im thàu-lām tshìn-tshái sú-iōng), tuì Tâi-gí-bûn ūn-
tōng, tāu-té sī hó iah-sī bái?
On 5月11日, 上午10時56分, Hak-khiam TiuN wrote:
甲jia Hoa-gi e hoat-im, 獅sai Tai-gi hoat-im koh ka pian-cho te 2 siaN.
Hak-khiam
2009/5/11 Sêng-hiân :
Guá tha̍k tsit 4 jī sī "tiong-kok kah sai", ì-sù khah sîng sī: "China
and the lion"…
On 5月10日, 下午6時37分, "Lim "
wrote:
Chheh-phaiN7-a2 Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi.
Khai
----- Original Message -----
From: Abon Lais To: ; Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM
Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
abon ti 3teng-po
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
From: Lau Seng-hian
Date: 2009-05-11 15:24:39
中國前tsi̍t-tsām-á真時行1種動物，叫做「草泥馬」(有興趣ê人請家己google就知)，我想若是beh罵--人tshoh--人，我ē khah ài用ē-kha tsit句華語：
草泥馬踏便腫過
講ê時上好捲舌，thang kap高級guā-síng-lâng 產生意象ê連結。
2009/5/11 Lau Seng-hian
Tsit學期讀後殖民理論，關係「語言使用」ê後殖民策略，有1項kap tse相關，就是「F-word」ê書寫，比論：James Kelman ê How late it was, how late內底大量使用英語ê "fuck"等等ê tshoh-kàn-kiāu iah歹聽話，koh加上對英語語詞kap文法ê扭曲，來達成反殖民、對殖民者kap殖民語抗議ê目的。
換1句話講：國外ê後殖民作家khah濟是the̍h「殖民語」來ka蹧躂、ka變形、ka侮辱，用殖民語來tshoh-kàn-kiāu、來講歹聽話，thang損蕩殖民ê語言頂ē位結構。
咱ê做法khah稀罕，tú-tú kap人顛倒píng，咱是the̍h咱已經hō͘人蹧躂兼鄙相ê母語來做「F-word」ê後殖民抗議，若正式ê聲明kap立場表達，suah顛倒khah tsia̍p使用殖民者ê語言，寫kah suí-khuì koh tau-sau，án-ne ê做法，kám m̄是teh助贊現此時gōng大眾對殖民語kap母語1 ê kuân 1 ê低、水準無siâng ê錯誤印象？
Hō͘ ta̍k-ê參考。
2009/5/12 google 阿凱
Goa jin-ui che chiu-si "wordplay". bo-iau-kin.
- Ko-jin siu-iong, ti-hui bo-kang. Tai-chiong ma-si an-ni, su-iau e alleviation bo-kang.
- Han-ji "pun-toe" tioh bo kou-teng e thak-im. Kan-na hong-pian nia.
- Lan ai kau-iok lan e TOL m-thang choe lang e lou-chai. Kui kang kan-na e-hiau 請 謝謝 對不起, lan ma ai kau-iok beh an-choaN ma, an-choaN kiau khah sui-khui, khah sim-sek, ji-chhiaN lan ka-ki lang chiah khoaN u.
In 中國甲獅 chit-pian , goa siuN hoan-tui-e eng-kai chiu-si lan kho-pi e colonized TOL. In TKL eng-kai si bo chun-bun tioh.
Khai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sêng-hiân"
To: "Tai-gu-bang" Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:23 PM Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Guá teh siūⁿ…tshin-tshiūⁿ tsit khuán sú-īng Tâi-gí ê hong-sik (īng pháiⁿ-thiaⁿ uē mā--lâng, 中國吃大便), kap tsin suî-ì ê bûn-jī sú-iōng (Huâ- gí Tâi-gí tho̍k-im thàu-lām tshìn-tshái sú-iōng), tuì Tâi-gí-bûn ūn-
tōng, tāu-té sī hó iah-sī bái?
On 5月11日, 上午10時56分, Hak-khiam TiuN wrote:
甲jia Hoa-gi e hoat-im, 獅sai Tai-gi hoat-im koh ka pian-cho te 2 siaN.
Hak-khiam
2009/5/11 Sêng-hiân :
Guá tha̍k tsit 4 jī sī "tiong-kok kah sai", ì-sù khah sîng sī: "China
and the lion"…
On 5月10日, 下午6時37分, "Lim "
wrote:
Chheh-phaiN7-a2 Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi.
Khai
----- Original Message -----
From: Abon Lais To: ;
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM
Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
abon ti 3teng-po
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
Re: Cynic beh án-choáⁿ hoan-e̍k
From: Lim
Date: 2009-05-11 22:02:34
Ko-ūi,
cynic, in hôa-gí hoan chòe "憤世嫉俗". Ah lán Tâi-gí leh?
Khai
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
From: Kei TADA
Date: 2009-05-11 22:18:29
Tai-oan-lang chit pah-ni lai, iong Tai-gi lai tui-khong sit-bin-chia.Koe-khi long thang hou Jit-pun keng-chhat thiaN Tai-gi thiaN-liau bu sa-sa."Tiong-kok chiah sai". Bat Tai-gi e lang chiah u hoat-tou chhio.Tai-gi si Tai-oan lang pi-bit e ki-ho, u chit-e ke-tat, chin ho.Tiong-kok lang na bo liau-kai Tai-gi, eng-oan bo hoat-tou liau-kai Tai-oan-lang.Chit-ku e-tang cho chhio-khoe, si in-ui Tai-oan-lang kam-kak Tiong-kok e ap-pek.Na bo, Tai-oan lang ma bo su-iau kong in phaiN-oe.Au-sit-bin e chok-ka iong sit-bin gi-gian si-m-si chhi-tiuN e koan-he?ChhiuN Taioan u kui-e goan-chu-bin chok-ka, ki-pun-siong si iong Tiong-kok-oe sia-chok.TADA2009/5/11 Lau Seng-hian :
Tsit學期讀後殖民理論，關係「語言使用」ê後殖民策略，有1項kap tse相關，就是「F-word」ê書寫，比論：James Kelman ê How late it was, how late內底大量使用英語ê "fuck"等等ê tshoh-kàn-kiāu iah歹聽話，koh加上對英語語詞kap文法ê扭曲，來達成反殖民、對殖民者kap殖民語抗議ê目的。
換1句話講：國外ê後殖民作家khah濟是the̍h「殖民語」來ka蹧躂、ka變形、ka侮辱，用殖民語來tshoh-kàn-kiāu、來講歹聽話，thang損蕩殖民ê語言頂ē位結構。
咱ê做法khah稀罕，tú-tú kap人顛倒píng，咱是the̍h咱已經hō͘人蹧躂兼鄙相ê母語來做「F-word」ê後殖民抗議，若正式ê聲明kap立場表達，suah顛倒khah tsia̍p使用殖民者ê語言，寫kah suí-khuì koh tau-sau，án-ne ê做法，kám m̄是teh助贊現此時gōng大眾對殖民語kap母語1 ê kuân 1 ê低、水準無siâng ê錯誤印象？
Hō͘ ta̍k-ê參考。
2009/5/12 google 阿凱
Goa jin-ui che chiu-si "wordplay". bo-iau-kin.
- Ko-jin siu-iong, ti-hui bo-kang. Tai-chiong ma-si an-ni, su-iau e alleviation bo-kang.
- Han-ji "pun-toe" tioh bo kou-teng e thak-im. Kan-na hong-pian nia.
- Lan ai kau-iok lan e TOL m-thang choe lang e lou-chai. Kui kang kan-na e-hiau 請 謝謝 對不起, lan ma ai kau-iok beh an-choaN ma, an-choaN kiau khah sui-khui, khah sim-sek, ji-chhiaN lan ka-ki lang chiah khoaN u. In 中國甲獅 chit-pian , goa siuN hoan-tui-e eng-kai chiu-si lan kho-pi e colonized TOL. In TKL eng-kai si bo chun-bun tioh.
Khai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sêng-hiân" To: "Tai-gu-bang" Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:23 PM Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Guá teh siūⁿ…tshin-tshiūⁿ tsit khuán sú-īng Tâi-gí ê hong-sik (īng pháiⁿ-thiaⁿ uē mā--lâng, 中國吃大便), kap tsin suî-ì ê bûn-jī sú-iōng (Huâ- gí Tâi-gí tho̍k-im thàu-lām tshìn-tshái sú-iōng), tuì Tâi-gí-bûn ūn- tōng, tāu-té sī hó iah-sī bái?
On 5月11日, 上午10時56分, Hak-khiam TiuN wrote:
甲jia Hoa-gi e hoat-im, 獅sai Tai-gi hoat-im koh ka pian-cho te 2 siaN.
Hak-khiam
2009/5/11 Sêng-hiân :
Guá tha̍k tsit 4 jī sī "tiong-kok kah sai", ì-sù khah sîng sī: "China and the lion"…
On 5月10日, 下午6時37分, "Lim " wrote:
Chheh-phaiN7-a2 Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi.
Khai
----- Original Message ----- From: Abon Lais To: ; Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
abon ti 3teng-po
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
Re: Re: Cynic beh án-choáⁿ hoan-e̍k
From: Lau Seng-hian
Date: 2009-05-11 23:21:55
Sió揣kuá資料來看了後，發覺cynic(al) tsit-ê詞現此時時行ê意思，kap i 原底ê意思（也就是hit-ê希臘哲學學派所提倡ê哲學觀）已經kui-ê 走tsing--去-a。
Kah-nā i ê意思已經變--a，我想就照 i taⁿ 通行 ê 意思去創詞khah好。
Cynic ê詞源，是「親像狗」ê意思，tse 也是日語ē ka翻譯做「犬儒學派」ê因端，tsit-ê和製漢語後--來去hō͘華語吸收，變做咱所知ê華語詞。
Taⁿ 一般人講 cynic ê意思，是講無相信人性 ê 善，對人、社會kap制度抱giâu疑ê態度，tsit-ê情形，台語有1 ê 淡薄á khah倚ê詞講「臭疑」，若koh加上i自早ê希臘語ê詞源意義，án-ne thang考慮ka 加 1 字「狗」，kap「臭疑」另家各食，自按呢創詞：「狗臭疑」。
Tshit-thô suah--a ^^a
2009/5/11 Lim
Ko-ūi,
cynic, in hôa-gí hoan chòe "憤世嫉俗". Ah lán Tâi-gí leh?
Khai
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
From: Lau Seng-hian
Date: 2009-05-11 23:50:18
Tada sàng,
Hiō-si̍t-bîn (guá ka-tī khah ài án-ne tha̍k, thang khu-hun "post" kap "back", m̄-koh kan-taⁿ sī kò-jîn ê ì-kiàn) ê tsok-ka sú-iōng sit-bîn-gí siá-tsok ê guân-in m̄-nā 1 ê, thang tsham-khó Ismail Talib 2002 nî ê tù-tsok The Language of Post-Colonial Literatures: An Introduction, lāi-té hun-thiah kah put-tsí-á siông-sè, sī 1 pún tsin sim-sik ê tsheh.
Senghian
2009/5/11 Kei TADA
Tai-oan-lang chit pah-ni lai, iong Tai-gi lai tui-khong sit-bin-chia.
Koe-khi long thang hou Jit-pun keng-chhat thiaN Tai-gi thiaN-liau bu sa-sa.
"Tiong-kok chiah sai". Bat Tai-gi e lang chiah u hoat-tou chhio.
Tai-gi si Tai-oan lang pi-bit e ki-ho, u chit-e ke-tat, chin ho.
Tiong-kok lang na bo liau-kai Tai-gi, eng-oan bo hoat-tou liau-kai Tai-oan-lang.
Chit-ku e-tang cho chhio-khoe, si in-ui Tai-oan-lang kam-kak Tiong-kok e ap-pek.
Na bo, Tai-oan lang ma bo su-iau kong in phaiN-oe.
Au-sit-bin e chok-ka iong sit-bin gi-gian si-m-si chhi-tiuN e koan-he?
ChhiuN Taioan u kui-e goan-chu-bin chok-ka, ki-pun-siong si iong
Tiong-kok-oe sia-chok.
TADA
2009/5/11 Lau Seng-hian :
Tsit學期讀後殖民理論，關係「語言使用」ê後殖民策略，有1項kap tse相關，就是「F-word」ê書寫，比論：James Kelman ê How
late it was, how late內底大量使用英語ê "fuck"等等ê tshoh-kàn-kiāu
iah歹聽話，koh加上對英語語詞kap文法ê扭曲，來達成反殖民、對殖民者kap殖民語抗議ê目的。
換1句話講：國外ê後殖民作家khah濟是the̍h「殖民語」來ka蹧躂、ka變形、ka侮辱，用殖民語來tshoh-kàn-kiāu、來講歹聽話，thang損蕩殖民ê語言頂ē位結構。
咱ê做法khah稀罕，tú-tú
kap人顛倒píng，咱是the̍h咱已經hō͘人蹧躂兼鄙相ê母語來做「F-word」ê後殖民抗議，若正式ê聲明kap立場表達，suah顛倒khah
tsia̍p使用殖民者ê語言，寫kah suí-khuì koh tau-sau，án-ne ê做法，kám
m̄是teh助贊現此時gōng大眾對殖民語kap母語1 ê kuân 1 ê低、水準無siâng ê錯誤印象？
Hō͘ ta̍k-ê參考。
2009/5/12 google 阿凱
Goa jin-ui che chiu-si "wordplay". bo-iau-kin.
- Ko-jin siu-iong, ti-hui bo-kang. Tai-chiong ma-si an-ni, su-iau e
alleviation bo-kang.
- Han-ji "pun-toe" tioh bo kou-teng e thak-im. Kan-na hong-pian nia.
- Lan ai kau-iok lan e TOL m-thang choe lang e lou-chai. Kui kang kan-na
e-hiau 請 謝謝 對不起, lan ma ai kau-iok beh an-choaN ma, an-choaN kiau khah
sui-khui, khah sim-sek, ji-chhiaN lan ka-ki lang chiah khoaN u.
In 中國甲獅 chit-pian , goa siuN hoan-tui-e eng-kai chiu-si lan kho-pi e
colonized TOL. In TKL eng-kai si bo chun-bun tioh.
Khai
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sêng-hiân"
To: "Tai-gu-bang"
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:23 PM
Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Guá teh siūⁿ…tshin-tshiūⁿ tsit khuán sú-īng Tâi-gí ê hong-sik (īng
pháiⁿ-thiaⁿ uē mā--lâng, 中國吃大便), kap tsin suî-ì ê bûn-jī sú-iōng (Huâ-
gí Tâi-gí tho̍k-im thàu-lām tshìn-tshái sú-iōng), tuì Tâi-gí-bûn ūn-
tōng, tāu-té sī hó iah-sī bái?
On 5月11日, 上午10時56分, Hak-khiam TiuN wrote:
甲jia Hoa-gi e hoat-im, 獅sai Tai-gi hoat-im koh ka pian-cho te 2 siaN.
Hak-khiam
2009/5/11 Sêng-hiân :
Guá tha̍k tsit 4 jī sī "tiong-kok kah sai", ì-sù khah sîng sī: "China
and the lion"…
On 5月10日, 下午6時37分, "Lim "
wrote:
Chheh-phaiN7-a2
Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi.
Khai
----- Original Message -----
From: Abon Lais
To: ;
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM
Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
abon ti 3teng-po
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
From: Lim
Date: 2009-05-12 03:55:42
Seng-hian hiaN kap Kok-ui,
Seng-hian hiaN kong liau pi goa sou kong koh-khah chheng-chho. M-ku, Li kong lan kong "F-letter words" si "khah ke" e sia-hoe gi-gian. Ki-sit ti hian-chu-si e Tai-oan sia-hoe, u tioh e sou-chai, ia u m-tioh e sou-chai. Tioh e sou-chai: Koan5 e sia-hoe gi-gian long kap cheng-hu kau-kiat. Lan Tai-gi eng-oan bo ki-hoe, sou-i pian-seng ke e gi-gian. M-tioh e sou-chai: gi-gian eng-kai boe in-ui i e chhou-oe, phaiN-thiaN oe khah choe, tioh si khak chhou, khah bo chui-chun e gi-gian. I-siong 2 hang long-si Political constructed e kiat-ko, ia chiu-si colonized e kiat-ko.
Lan chin-chiaN ai chhoe ka-ki e chhut-lou. Lan TOL ai leng-goa kau-iok ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e oe, choe lan ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e kou. An-ni Lan chiah u hi-bang. Ah, Na-si beh kek hou-i Genteel, hypocrisy, Tong-choe si subliming, HE tioh chin-chiaN lu giam-tiong, chhiuN hia e eggheads in academic positions hia e castrated toa KS ah. Lan TOL kong he tioh-si boLP.
Eng-gi thong-ti koe e sou-chai, in hia e li-lun, goa siuN, ki-sit bo hia-nih ho thiaN. Lan chia ma u. Tai-oan e Hoa-gi, oan-choan sit-khi kng-chih, kap iN-tun im, kam beh kong-si pho-hoai Hoa-gi e hoat-im?? Lan Tai-gi e hoan2 infiltrate jip Hoa-gi, "pho-hoai" hoat-gi gi-hoat e ma-si u. M-ku, che eng-kai si gi-gian chiap-siok e chu-jian hian-siong, boe-tang kong si hoan-sit-bin, iah-si De-sit-bin. Ti Tai-oan, chin-choe lang long liah-chun ka-ki kong hoa-gi kong kah siah-siah kio, kam u hoan-kong Tai-liok ?? In hia e Eng-gi kam u hoan-kong Eng-kok? hou eng-kok lang long kong hit-khoan de-sit-bin e Eng-gi? Goa siuN, chit e gi-te, iah su-iau chin ku chin ku kap khong-kan lai phoe-hoe.
Khai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kei TADA" To: "台語網" Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 10:18 PM Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Tai-oan-lang chit pah-ni lai, iong Tai-gi lai tui-khong sit-bin-chia.
Koe-khi long thang hou Jit-pun keng-chhat thiaN Tai-gi thiaN-liau bu sa-sa.
"Tiong-kok chiah sai". Bat Tai-gi e lang chiah u hoat-tou chhio.
Tai-gi si Tai-oan lang pi-bit e ki-ho, u chit-e ke-tat, chin ho.
Tiong-kok lang na bo liau-kai Tai-gi, eng-oan bo hoat-tou liau-kai Tai-oan-lang.
Chit-ku e-tang cho chhio-khoe, si in-ui Tai-oan-lang kam-kak Tiong-kok e ap-pek.
Na bo, Tai-oan lang ma bo su-iau kong in phaiN-oe.
Au-sit-bin e chok-ka iong sit-bin gi-gian si-m-si chhi-tiuN e koan-he?
ChhiuN Taioan u kui-e goan-chu-bin chok-ka, ki-pun-siong si iong Tiong-kok-oe sia-chok.
TADA
2009/5/11 Lau Seng-hian :
Tsit學期讀後殖民理論，關係「語言使用」ê後殖民策略，有1項kap tse相關，就是「F-word」ê書寫，比論：James Kelman ê How late it was, how late內底大量使用英語ê "fuck"等等ê tshoh-kàn-kiāu iah歹聽話，koh加上對英語語詞kap文法ê扭曲，來達成反殖民、對殖民者kap殖民語抗議ê目的。
換1句話講：國外ê後殖民作家khah濟是the̍h「殖民語」來ka蹧躂、ka變形、ka侮辱，用殖民語來tshoh-kàn-kiāu、來講歹聽話，thang損蕩殖民ê語言頂ē位結構。
咱ê做法khah稀罕，tú-tú kap人顛倒píng，咱是the̍h咱已經hō͘人蹧躂兼鄙相ê母語來做「F-word」ê後殖民抗議，若正式ê聲明kap立場表達，suah顛倒khah tsia̍p使用殖民者ê語言，寫kah suí-khuì koh tau-sau，án-ne ê做法，kám m̄是teh助贊現此時gōng大眾對殖民語kap母語1 ê kuân 1 ê低、水準無siâng ê錯誤印象？
Hō͘ ta̍k-ê參考。
2009/5/12 google 阿凱
Goa jin-ui che chiu-si "wordplay". bo-iau-kin.
- Ko-jin siu-iong, ti-hui bo-kang. Tai-chiong ma-si an-ni, su-iau e alleviation bo-kang.
- Han-ji "pun-toe" tioh bo kou-teng e thak-im. Kan-na hong-pian nia.
- Lan ai kau-iok lan e TOL m-thang choe lang e lou-chai. Kui kang kan-na e-hiau 請 謝謝 對不起, lan ma ai kau-iok beh an-choaN ma, an-choaN kiau khah sui-khui, khah sim-sek, ji-chhiaN lan ka-ki lang chiah khoaN u. In 中國甲獅 chit-pian , goa siuN hoan-tui-e eng-kai chiu-si lan kho-pi e colonized TOL. In TKL eng-kai si bo chun-bun tioh.
Khai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sêng-hiân" To: "Tai-gu-bang" Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:23 PM Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Guá teh siūⁿ…tshin-tshiūⁿ tsit khuán sú-īng Tâi-gí ê hong-sik (īng pháiⁿ-thiaⁿ uē mā--lâng, 中國吃大便), kap tsin suî-ì ê bûn-jī sú-iōng (Huâ- gí Tâi-gí tho̍k-im thàu-lām tshìn-tshái sú-iōng), tuì Tâi-gí-bûn ūn- tōng, tāu-té sī hó iah-sī bái?
On 5月11日, 上午10時56分, Hak-khiam TiuN wrote:
甲jia Hoa-gi e hoat-im, 獅sai Tai-gi hoat-im koh ka pian-cho te 2 siaN.
Hak-khiam
2009/5/11 Sêng-hiân :
Guá tha̍k tsit 4 jī sī "tiong-kok kah sai", ì-sù khah sîng sī: "China and the lion"…
On 5月10日, 下午6時37分, "Lim "
wrote:
Chheh-phaiN7-a2 Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi.
Khai
----- Original Message ----- From: Abon Lais To: ; Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
abon ti 3teng-po
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
From: Kei TADA
Date: 2009-05-12 06:04:28
Senghian hiaN, Kam-sia li iong LMJ sia, hou goa e-tang liam khah cheng-khak.Goa chi-chhi lan thak Hio-sit-bin gian-kiu, lai ti hak-sut-kai pa-ak kiong-se.Ki-sit , chin phaiN-se, pun-lang bo saN teh thak.U chit-e bun-te si na si iong hio-sit-bin e kak-tou lai khoaN,Si-m-si Jit-pun chiah si sit-bin chia. Sit-bin gi-gian si Jit-gi.Na an-ne, Tiong-hoa-bin-kok si hio-sit-bin chia, Tiong-kok-oe si hio-sit-bin gi-gian, si bo?TADA2009/5/12 Lau Seng-hian :
Tada sàng,
Hiō-si̍t-bîn (guá ka-tī khah ài án-ne tha̍k, thang khu-hun "post" kap "back", m̄-koh kan-taⁿ sī kò-jîn ê ì-kiàn) ê tsok-ka sú-iōng sit-bîn-gí siá-tsok ê guân-in m̄-nā 1 ê, thang tsham-khó Ismail Talib 2002 nî ê tù-tsok The Language of Post-Colonial Literatures: An Introduction, lāi-té hun-thiah kah put-tsí-á siông-sè, sī 1 pún tsin sim-sik ê tsheh.
Senghian
2009/5/11 Kei TADA
Tai-oan-lang chit pah-ni lai, iong Tai-gi lai tui-khong sit-bin-chia.
Koe-khi long thang hou Jit-pun keng-chhat thiaN Tai-gi thiaN-liau bu sa-sa.
"Tiong-kok chiah sai". Bat Tai-gi e lang chiah u hoat-tou chhio.
Tai-gi si Tai-oan lang pi-bit e ki-ho, u chit-e ke-tat, chin ho.
Tiong-kok lang na bo liau-kai Tai-gi, eng-oan bo hoat-tou liau-kai Tai-oan-lang.
Chit-ku e-tang cho chhio-khoe, si in-ui Tai-oan-lang kam-kak Tiong-kok e ap-pek.
Na bo, Tai-oan lang ma bo su-iau kong in phaiN-oe.
Au-sit-bin e chok-ka iong sit-bin gi-gian si-m-si chhi-tiuN e koan-he?
ChhiuN Taioan u kui-e goan-chu-bin chok-ka, ki-pun-siong si iong Tiong-kok-oe sia-chok.
TADA
2009/5/11 Lau Seng-hian :
Tsit學期讀後殖民理論，關係「語言使用」ê後殖民策略，有1項kap tse相關，就是「F-word」ê書寫，比論：James Kelman ê How late it was, how late內底大量使用英語ê "fuck"等等ê tshoh-kàn-kiāu iah歹聽話，koh加上對英語語詞kap文法ê扭曲，來達成反殖民、對殖民者kap殖民語抗議ê目的。
換1句話講：國外ê後殖民作家khah濟是the̍h「殖民語」來ka蹧躂、ka變形、ka侮辱，用殖民語來tshoh-kàn-kiāu、來講歹聽話，thang損蕩殖民ê語言頂ē位結構。
咱ê做法khah稀罕，tú-tú
kap人顛倒píng，咱是the̍h咱已經hō͘人蹧躂兼鄙相ê母語來做「F-word」ê後殖民抗議，若正式ê聲明kap立場表達，suah顛倒khah tsia̍p使用殖民者ê語言，寫kah suí-khuì koh tau-sau，án-ne ê做法，kám m̄是teh助贊現此時gōng大眾對殖民語kap母語1 ê kuân 1 ê低、水準無siâng ê錯誤印象？
Hō͘ ta̍k-ê參考。
2009/5/12 google 阿凱
Goa jin-ui che chiu-si "wordplay". bo-iau-kin.
- Ko-jin siu-iong, ti-hui bo-kang. Tai-chiong ma-si an-ni, su-iau e alleviation bo-kang.
- Han-ji "pun-toe" tioh bo kou-teng e thak-im. Kan-na hong-pian nia.
- Lan ai kau-iok lan e TOL m-thang choe lang e lou-chai. Kui kang kan-na e-hiau 請 謝謝 對不起, lan ma ai kau-iok beh an-choaN ma, an-choaN kiau khah sui-khui, khah sim-sek, ji-chhiaN lan ka-ki lang chiah khoaN u. In 中國甲獅 chit-pian , goa siuN hoan-tui-e eng-kai chiu-si lan kho-pi e colonized TOL. In TKL eng-kai si bo chun-bun tioh.
Khai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sêng-hiân" To: "Tai-gu-bang" Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:23 PM Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Guá teh siūⁿ…tshin-tshiūⁿ tsit khuán sú-īng Tâi-gí ê hong-sik (īng pháiⁿ-thiaⁿ uē mā--lâng, 中國吃大便), kap tsin suî-ì ê bûn-jī sú-iōng (Huâ- gí Tâi-gí tho̍k-im thàu-lām tshìn-tshái sú-iōng), tuì Tâi-gí-bûn ūn- tōng, tāu-té sī hó iah-sī bái?
On 5月11日, 上午10時56分, Hak-khiam TiuN wrote:
甲jia Hoa-gi e hoat-im, 獅sai Tai-gi hoat-im koh ka pian-cho te 2 siaN.
Hak-khiam
2009/5/11 Sêng-hiân :
Guá tha̍k tsit 4 jī sī "tiong-kok kah sai", ì-sù khah sîng sī: "China and the lion"…
On 5月10日, 下午6時37分, "Lim " wrote:
Chheh-phaiN7-a2 Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi.
Khai
----- Original Message ----- From: Abon Lais To: ; Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
abon ti 3teng-po
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: Cynic beh án-choáⁿ hoan-e̍k
From: Lah-jih Siau
Date: 2009-05-12 07:45:43
我若共阮牽手的意思掠歪去,解說做歹的, 伊就罵我「臭心想」.
Siau pêng-tī
----- Original Message -----
From: Lau Seng-hian
To: 台語網
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 11:21 PM
Subject: [tgb] Re: Cynic beh án-choáⁿ hoan-e̍k
Sió揣kuá資料來看了後，發覺cynic(al) tsit-ê詞現此時時行ê意思，kap i 原底ê意思（也就是hit-ê希臘哲學學派所提倡ê哲學觀）已經kui-ê 走tsing--去-a。
Kah-nā i ê意思已經變--a，我想就照 i taⁿ 通行 ê 意思去創詞khah好。
Cynic ê詞源，是「親像狗」ê意思，tse 也是日語ē ka翻譯做「犬儒學派」ê因端，tsit-ê和製漢語後--來去hō͘華語吸收，變做咱所知ê華語詞。
Taⁿ 一般人講 cynic ê意思，是講無相信人性 ê 善，對人、社會kap制度抱giâu疑ê態度，tsit-ê情形，台語有1 ê 淡薄á khah倚ê詞講「臭疑」，若koh加上i自早ê希臘語ê詞源意義，án-ne thang考慮ka 加 1 字「狗」，kap「臭疑」另家各食，自按呢創詞：「狗臭疑」。
Tshit-thô suah--a ^^a
2009/5/11 Lim
Ko-ūi,
cynic, in hôa-gí hoan chòe "憤世嫉俗". Ah lán
Tâi-gí leh?
Khai
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
From: Lim
Date: 2009-05-12 10:16:06
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lim " To: "台語網" Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 3:55 AM Subject: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
Seng-hian hiaN kap Kok-ui,
Seng-hian hiaN kong liau pi goa sou kong koh-khah chheng-chho. M-ku, Li kong lan kong "F-letter words" si "khah ke" e sia-hoe gi-gian. Ki-sit ti hian-chu-si e Tai-oan sia-hoe, u tioh e sou-chai, ia u m-tioh e sou-chai. Tioh e sou-chai: Koan5 e sia-hoe gi-gian long kap cheng-hu kau-kiat. Lan Tai-gi eng-oan bo ki-hoe, sou-i pian-seng ke e gi-gian. M-tioh e sou-chai: gi-gian eng-kai boe in-ui i e chhou-oe, phaiN-thiaN oe khah choe, tioh si khak chhou, khah bo chui-chun e gi-gian. I-siong 2 hang long-si Political constructed e kiat-ko, ia chiu-si colonized e kiat-ko.
Lan chin-chiaN ai chhoe ka-ki e chhut-lou. Lan TOL ai leng-goa kau-iok ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e oe, choe lan ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e kou. An-ni Lan chiah u hi-bang. Ah, Na-si beh kek hou-i Genteel, hypocrisy, Tong-choe si subliming, HE tioh chin-chiaN lu giam-tiong, chhiuN hia e eggheads in academic positions hia e castrated toa KS ah. Lan TOL kong he tioh-si boLP.
Eng-gi thong-ti koe e sou-chai, in hia e li-lun, goa siuN, ki-sit bo hia-nih ho thiaN. Lan chia ma u. Tai-oan e Hoa-gi, oan-choan sit-khi kng-chih, kap iN-tun im, kam beh kong-si pho-hoai Hoa-gi e hoat-im?? Lan Tai-gi e hoan2 infiltrate jip Hoa-gi, "pho-hoai" hoat-gi gi-hoat e ma-si u. M-ku, che eng-kai si gi-gian chiap-siok e chu-jian hian-siong, boe-tang kong si hoan-sit-bin, iah-si De-sit-bin. Ti Tai-oan, chin-choe lang long liah-chun ka-ki kong hoa-gi kong kah siah-siah kio, kam u hoan-kong Tai-liok ?? In hia e Eng-gi kam u hoan-kong Eng-kok? hou eng-kok lang long kong hit-khoan de-sit-bin e Eng-gi? Goa siuN, chit e gi-te, iah su-iau chin ku chin ku kap khong-kan lai phoe-hoe.
Khai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kei TADA" To: "台語網" Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 10:18 PM Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Tai-oan-lang chit pah-ni lai, iong Tai-gi lai tui-khong sit-bin-chia.
Koe-khi long thang hou Jit-pun keng-chhat thiaN Tai-gi thiaN-liau bu sa-sa.
"Tiong-kok chiah sai". Bat Tai-gi e lang chiah u hoat-tou chhio.
Tai-gi si Tai-oan lang pi-bit e ki-ho, u chit-e ke-tat, chin ho.
Tiong-kok lang na bo liau-kai Tai-gi, eng-oan bo hoat-tou liau-kai Tai-oan-lang.
Chit-ku e-tang cho chhio-khoe, si in-ui Tai-oan-lang kam-kak Tiong-kok e ap-pek.
Na bo, Tai-oan lang ma bo su-iau kong in phaiN-oe.
Au-sit-bin e chok-ka iong sit-bin gi-gian si-m-si chhi-tiuN e koan-he?
ChhiuN Taioan u kui-e goan-chu-bin chok-ka, ki-pun-siong si iong Tiong-kok-oe sia-chok.
TADA
2009/5/11 Lau Seng-hian :
Tsit學期讀後殖民理論，關係「語言使用」ê後殖民策略，有1項kap tse相關，就是「F-word」ê書寫，比論：James Kelman ê How late it was, how late內底大量使用英語ê "fuck"等等ê tshoh-kàn-kiāu iah歹聽話，koh加上對英語語詞kap文法ê扭曲，來達成反殖民、對殖民者kap殖民語抗議ê目的。
換1句話講：國外ê後殖民作家khah濟是the̍h「殖民語」來ka蹧躂、ka變形、ka侮辱，用殖民語來tshoh-kàn-kiāu、來講歹聽話，thang損蕩殖民ê語言頂ē位結構。
咱ê做法khah稀罕，tú-tú kap人顛倒píng，咱是the̍h咱已經hō͘人蹧躂兼鄙相ê母語來做「F-word」ê後殖民抗議，若正式ê聲明kap立場表達，suah顛倒khah tsia̍p使用殖民者ê語言，寫kah suí-khuì koh tau-sau，án-ne ê做法，kám m̄是teh助贊現此時gōng大眾對殖民語kap母語1 ê kuân 1 ê低、水準無siâng ê錯誤印象？
Hō͘ ta̍k-ê參考。
2009/5/12 google 阿凱
Goa jin-ui che chiu-si "wordplay". bo-iau-kin.
- Ko-jin siu-iong, ti-hui bo-kang. Tai-chiong ma-si an-ni, su-iau e alleviation bo-kang.
- Han-ji "pun-toe" tioh bo kou-teng e thak-im. Kan-na hong-pian nia.
- Lan ai kau-iok lan e TOL m-thang choe lang e lou-chai. Kui kang kan-na e-hiau 請 謝謝 對不起, lan ma ai kau-iok beh an-choaN ma, an-choaN kiau khah sui-khui, khah sim-sek, ji-chhiaN lan ka-ki lang chiah khoaN u. In 中國甲獅 chit-pian , goa siuN hoan-tui-e eng-kai chiu-si lan kho-pi e colonized TOL. In TKL eng-kai si bo chun-bun tioh.
Khai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sêng-hiân" To: "Tai-gu-bang" Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:23 PM Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Guá teh siūⁿ…tshin-tshiūⁿ tsit khuán sú-īng Tâi-gí ê hong-sik (īng pháiⁿ-thiaⁿ uē mā--lâng, 中國吃大便), kap tsin suî-ì ê bûn-jī sú-iōng (Huâ- gí Tâi-gí tho̍k-im thàu-lām tshìn-tshái sú-iōng), tuì Tâi-gí-bûn ūn- tōng, tāu-té sī hó iah-sī bái?
On 5月11日, 上午10時56分, Hak-khiam TiuN wrote:
甲jia Hoa-gi e hoat-im, 獅sai Tai-gi hoat-im koh ka pian-cho te 2 siaN.
Hak-khiam
2009/5/11 Sêng-hiân :
Guá tha̍k tsit 4 jī sī "tiong-kok kah sai", ì-sù khah sîng sī: "China and the lion"…
On 5月10日, 下午6時37分, "Lim "
wrote:
Chheh-phaiN7-a2 Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi.
Khai
----- Original Message ----- From: Abon Lais To: ; Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
abon ti 3teng-po
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
From: Lau Seng-hian
Date: 2009-05-12 13:28:14
Tada sàng,Tse kóng si̍t-tsāi--ê, sī 1 ê put-tsí-á ho̍k-tsa̍p ê būn-tê. Guá thang kí līng-guā 1 ê lē lâi siūⁿ:Tiong-kok lâm-hong ê Hok-kiàn kap Kńg-tang sīm-tsì Tsiat-kang, tī kó͘-tsá sî-tāi sī Pah-ua̍t bîn-tso̍k ê só͘-tsāi, sī hui-Hàn-tso̍k--ê, in ū in ka-tī ê bûn-huà, gí-giân kap hong-sio̍k, tsóng--sī āu--lâi pak-pîng ê Hàn-jîn iōng bú-li̍k kā in tsiàm, king-kuè 2 tshing guā tang ê "si̍t-bîn thóng-tī", tsiah-ê lâng suah lóng piàn-tsò Hàn-jîn, koh-khah tsiū hiān-tshú-sî in mā ka-tī jīn-uî in sī Hàn-jîn, án-ne, tsit-ê li̍k-sú kuè-tîng, kám iáu kiò-tsò si̍t-bîn?Huān-sè ū lâng kóng tse tō sī lāi-si̍t-bîn (internal colonalism)?M̄-koh, lán nā tsáu khì kā Huat-kok-lâng kóng: Ueh! Lín í-king hőng lāi-si̍t-bîn--a! In tiāⁿ-tio̍h ē tòng-tsò lán sī siáu--ê. Sui-bóng in bô tsàn-tông, tsiū li̍k-sú sū-si̍t lâi khuàⁿ, tsit-má ê Huat-kok-lâng tik-si̍t sī hō͘ Lô-má si̍t-bîn, só͘ sán-sing ê bûn-huà kap gí-giân--ah!Tī kó͘-tsá kó͘-tsá, Lô-má Tè-kok iáu-buē khí-ki tsìn-tsîng, Gaul (taⁿ ê France hit kho͘-uî-á) kám bô kap Germanic-lâng sio-uá? Í-tsá gún tha̍k se-kok sú ê sî, lóng bat tha̍k-tio̍h Charlemagne (查理曼大帝), i ê ông-kok pau-kuat taⁿ ê Tik-kok kap Huat-kok, jî-tshiáⁿ sī i kuè-sin liáu-āu, in-uī lāi-pō͘ tàu-tsing, tsiah thiah tsò Tang Francia (東法蘭克), Sai Francia (西法蘭克) kap Tiong Francia (中法蘭克)--ê, Tang Francia āu--lâi ián-piàn tsò Sîn-sìng Lô-má Tè-kok, kok piàn-tsò taⁿ ê Tik-kok, pó-tshî Germanic ê thuân-thóng. Nā Sai Francia kap Tiong Francia--leh? In-uī āu--lâi Latin-lâng (Lô-má-lâng hing-khí), lóng hō͘ Lô-má Tè-kok tsiàm--khì, kui-ê gí-giân kap hong-sio̍k lóng Latin-huà, āu--lâi piàn-tsò kin-á-ji̍t ê Huat-kok kap Italia.Tī kuí-ā-pah tang tsîng, Francaise (Franch) hō͘ lâng phì-siūⁿ kóng sī "thè-huà ê Latin-gí", tuì tsia lán tō tsai i ê ì-sù sī siáⁿ.M̄-koh, taⁿ ê Huat-kok-lâng, kám ū lâng ē sîng-jīn ka-tī ê gí-giân kap bûn-huà sī hō͘ Lô-má-lâng si̍t-bîn kap lāi-si̍t-bîn ê sán-bu̍t?-------------Tńg-lâi kóng Tâi-uân, guá kò-jîn tsú-kuan-tik jīn-uî Tiong-kok tong-jiân sī Tâi-uân ê si̍t-bîn-tsiá, tō tsún PRC iáu bô thóng-tī Tâi-uân, bûn-huà kap gí-giân mā sī 1 tsióng khuah-ì ê si̍t-bîn kang-kū (pí-lūn, lán lóng tsai taⁿ thong-sè-kài siōng-tuā ê sī Ing-gí Tè-kok, koh Bí-kok tī bûn-huà, tsìng-tī ê ì-gī tíng-kuân, teh tuì tsin tsē só͘-tsāi si̍t-bîn, tse pau-kuat Tâi-uân kap Ji̍t-pún mā bô-tik-khak?)Sī kóng, guá m̄ tsai-iáⁿ beh án-tsuáⁿ khuàⁿ-thāi guá ê pêⁿ-po͘ tsó͘ kap Pah-ua̍t-tsó͘ hőng si̍t-bîn tông-huà ê li̍k-sú, pau-kuat nā beh kóng li̍k-sú sū-si̍t, guá mā tsin oh pué-huē guá tsit-má teh su-siá ê bûn-jī, sī m̄-sī siū Hàn-tso̍k lāi-si̍t-bîn ê sán-bu̍t?Gí-giân kap bûn-huà sī ua̍h--ê, liû-tōng--ê, hō͘-siong thàu-lām kap íng-hióng--ê, beh tī toh-uī thang uē 1 tiâu kheh-kuan ê suàⁿ, kóng uì siáⁿ-mih thîng-tō͘ khái-sí, tō kiò-tsò si̍t-bîn??? Tō-tsún ū hit tiâu suàⁿ, mā ē ū lâng "tsú-kuan-tik" bô jīn-tông (tshin-tshiūⁿ Huat-kok-lâng), kám m̄-sī?Sêng-hiân 2009/5/12 Kei TADA
Senghian hiaN, Kam-sia li iong LMJ sia, hou goa e-tang liam khah cheng-khak.
Goa chi-chhi lan thak Hio-sit-bin gian-kiu, lai ti hak-sut-kai pa-ak kiong-se.
Ki-sit , chin phaiN-se, pun-lang bo saN teh thak.
U chit-e bun-te si na si iong hio-sit-bin e kak-tou lai khoaN,
Si-m-si Jit-pun chiah si sit-bin chia. Sit-bin gi-gian si Jit-gi.
Na an-ne, Tiong-hoa-bin-kok si hio-sit-bin chia, Tiong-kok-oe si hio-sit-bin gi-gian, si bo?
TADA
2009/5/12 Lau Seng-hian :
Tada sàng,
Hiō-si̍t-bîn (guá ka-tī khah ài án-ne tha̍k, thang khu-hun "post" kap "back", m̄-koh kan-taⁿ sī kò-jîn ê ì-kiàn) ê tsok-ka sú-iōng sit-bîn-gí siá-tsok ê guân-in m̄-nā 1 ê, thang tsham-khó Ismail Talib 2002 nî ê tù-tsok The Language of Post-Colonial Literatures: An Introduction, lāi-té hun-thiah kah put-tsí-á siông-sè, sī 1 pún tsin sim-sik ê tsheh.
Senghian
2009/5/11 Kei TADA
Tai-oan-lang chit pah-ni lai, iong Tai-gi lai tui-khong sit-bin-chia.
Koe-khi long thang hou Jit-pun keng-chhat thiaN Tai-gi thiaN-liau bu sa-sa.
"Tiong-kok chiah sai". Bat Tai-gi e lang chiah u hoat-tou chhio.
Tai-gi si Tai-oan lang pi-bit e ki-ho, u chit-e ke-tat, chin ho.
Tiong-kok lang na bo liau-kai Tai-gi, eng-oan bo hoat-tou liau-kai Tai-oan-lang.
Chit-ku e-tang cho chhio-khoe, si in-ui Tai-oan-lang kam-kak Tiong-kok e ap-pek.
Na bo, Tai-oan lang ma bo su-iau kong in phaiN-oe.
Au-sit-bin e chok-ka iong sit-bin gi-gian si-m-si chhi-tiuN e koan-he?
ChhiuN Taioan u kui-e goan-chu-bin chok-ka, ki-pun-siong si iong Tiong-kok-oe sia-chok.
TADA
2009/5/11 Lau Seng-hian :
Tsit學期讀後殖民理論，關係「語言使用」ê後殖民策略，有1項kap tse相關，就是「F-word」ê書寫，比論：James Kelman ê How late it was, how late內底大量使用英語ê "fuck"等等ê tshoh-kàn-kiāu iah歹聽話，koh加上對英語語詞kap文法ê扭曲，來達成反殖民、對殖民者kap殖民語抗議ê目的。
換1句話講：國外ê後殖民作家khah濟是the̍h「殖民語」來ka蹧躂、ka變形、ka侮辱，用殖民語來tshoh-kàn-kiāu、來講歹聽話，thang損蕩殖民ê語言頂ē位結構。
咱ê做法khah稀罕，tú-tú
kap人顛倒píng，咱是the̍h咱已經hō͘人蹧躂兼鄙相ê母語來做「F-word」ê後殖民抗議，若正式ê聲明kap立場表達，suah顛倒khah tsia̍p使用殖民者ê語言，寫kah suí-khuì koh tau-sau，án-ne ê做法，kám m̄是teh助贊現此時gōng大眾對殖民語kap母語1 ê kuân 1 ê低、水準無siâng ê錯誤印象？
Hō͘ ta̍k-ê參考。
2009/5/12 google 阿凱
Goa jin-ui che chiu-si "wordplay". bo-iau-kin.
- Ko-jin siu-iong, ti-hui bo-kang. Tai-chiong ma-si an-ni, su-iau e alleviation bo-kang.
- Han-ji "pun-toe" tioh bo kou-teng e thak-im. Kan-na hong-pian nia.
- Lan ai kau-iok lan e TOL m-thang choe lang e lou-chai. Kui kang kan-na e-hiau 請 謝謝 對不起, lan ma ai kau-iok beh an-choaN ma, an-choaN kiau khah sui-khui, khah sim-sek, ji-chhiaN lan ka-ki lang chiah khoaN u. In 中國甲獅 chit-pian , goa siuN hoan-tui-e eng-kai chiu-si lan kho-pi e colonized TOL. In TKL eng-kai si bo chun-bun tioh.
Khai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sêng-hiân" To: "Tai-gu-bang" Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:23 PM Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Guá teh siūⁿ…tshin-tshiūⁿ tsit khuán sú-īng Tâi-gí ê hong-sik (īng pháiⁿ-thiaⁿ uē mā--lâng, 中國吃大便), kap tsin suî-ì ê bûn-jī sú-iōng (Huâ- gí Tâi-gí tho̍k-im thàu-lām tshìn-tshái sú-iōng), tuì Tâi-gí-bûn ūn- tōng, tāu-té sī hó iah-sī bái?
On 5月11日, 上午10時56分, Hak-khiam TiuN wrote:
甲jia Hoa-gi e hoat-im, 獅sai Tai-gi hoat-im koh ka pian-cho te 2 siaN.
Hak-khiam
2009/5/11 Sêng-hiân :
Guá tha̍k tsit 4 jī sī "tiong-kok kah sai", ì-sù khah sîng sī: "China and the lion"…
On 5月10日, 下午6時37分, "Lim " wrote:
Chheh-phaiN7-a2 Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi.
Khai
----- Original Message ----- From: Abon Lais To: ; Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
abon ti 3teng-po
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
-- Lau, Seng-hian～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
From: 天
Date: 2009-05-12 23:05:19
Ta̍kgê hó:
Goá chitmá tńglâi toà tī Tâipak, ū tangsî'á chhutkhì goākháu oânná teh kā lâng kóng hōló'oē. Ū tangsî'á pa̍tlâng soah mn̄g goá, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng 'kokgí' bē?" Goá kóng: "Ēhiáu." In to̍h ìn kóng, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng hoâgí, lí ná bô kóng hoâgí?"
Chiah'ê lóng sī 40-60 hoè ê lâng teh mn̄g ánne, in mā sī kài gâu kóng hōló'oē ê lâng.
Goá chitmá khah bô 30, lâng kóng goá seⁿ chò káná m̄ chai lán Asià tó chi̍t kok ê hoanná.
Sī ánchoáⁿ pa̍t kok ê siàuliânlâng lâi Tâi'oân ài kóng hoâgí khah chūjiân.
Goá bô beh koh thiaⁿ lâng kóng he sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê. Suijiân he teksi̍t sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê, m̄ koh chitmá íkeng sī lán teh chū'ngó͘ lāisi̍tbîn ah.
Tī Hiongkáng, in chitmá ū sekchêng cha̍pchì 100 pha chū thâu kàu boé lóng ēng Kńgtang'oē teh siá ê. In hia ha̍k'hāu mā bô teh kà hit ê gígiân. Hiah'ê hiāntāi hoâgí lāibīn m̄ bat khoàⁿ tio̍h ê hànjī, he mā m̄ sī ha̍k'hāu teh kà ê, in hia soah ta̍kgê lóng ēhiáu.
Só͘'í lán TGB ê hiaⁿché ài hō͘siong biánlē, lán ài tī "bô èngkai kóng hōló'oē" ê to͘ha̍p lâi kóng hōló'oē, iûkî tùi lán khah siàuliân ê chit ûn lâi kóng, hoānsè khah khùnlân.
天
2009/5/12 Lim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lim "
To: "台語網"
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 3:55 AM
Subject: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
Seng-hian hiaN kap Kok-ui,
Seng-hian hiaN kong liau pi goa sou kong koh-khah chheng-chho.
M-ku, Li kong lan kong "F-letter words" si "khah ke" e sia-hoe gi-gian.
Ki-sit ti hian-chu-si e Tai-oan sia-hoe, u tioh e sou-chai, ia u m-tioh e
sou-chai.
Tioh e sou-chai: Koan5 e sia-hoe gi-gian long kap cheng-hu kau-kiat. Lan
Tai-gi eng-oan bo ki-hoe, sou-i pian-seng ke e gi-gian.
M-tioh e sou-chai: gi-gian eng-kai boe in-ui i e chhou-oe, phaiN-thiaN oe
khah choe, tioh si khak chhou, khah bo chui-chun e gi-gian.
I-siong 2 hang long-si Political constructed e kiat-ko, ia chiu-si
colonized e kiat-ko.
Lan chin-chiaN ai chhoe ka-ki e chhut-lou. Lan TOL ai leng-goa kau-iok
ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e oe, choe lan ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e kou. An-ni
Lan chiah u hi-bang.
Ah, Na-si beh kek hou-i Genteel, hypocrisy, Tong-choe si subliming, HE
tioh chin-chiaN lu giam-tiong, chhiuN hia e eggheads in academic positions
hia e castrated toa KS ah. Lan TOL kong he tioh-si boLP.
Eng-gi thong-ti koe e sou-chai, in hia e li-lun, goa siuN, ki-sit bo
hia-nih ho thiaN. Lan chia ma u.
Tai-oan e Hoa-gi, oan-choan sit-khi kng-chih, kap iN-tun im, kam beh
kong-si pho-hoai Hoa-gi e hoat-im??
Lan Tai-gi e hoan2 infiltrate jip Hoa-gi, "pho-hoai" hoat-gi gi-hoat e
ma-si u. M-ku, che eng-kai si gi-gian chiap-siok e chu-jian hian-siong,
boe-tang kong si hoan-sit-bin, iah-si De-sit-bin.
Ti Tai-oan, chin-choe lang long liah-chun ka-ki kong hoa-gi kong kah
siah-siah kio, kam u hoan-kong Tai-liok ?? In hia e Eng-gi kam u hoan-kong
Eng-kok? hou eng-kok lang long kong hit-khoan de-sit-bin e Eng-gi? Goa
siuN, chit e gi-te, iah su-iau chin ku chin ku kap khong-kan lai phoe-hoe.
Khai
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kei TADA"
To: "台語網"
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 10:18 PM
Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Tai-oan-lang chit pah-ni lai, iong Tai-gi lai tui-khong sit-bin-chia.
Koe-khi long thang hou Jit-pun keng-chhat thiaN Tai-gi thiaN-liau bu
sa-sa.
"Tiong-kok chiah sai". Bat Tai-gi e lang chiah u hoat-tou chhio.
Tai-gi si Tai-oan lang pi-bit e ki-ho, u chit-e ke-tat, chin ho.
Tiong-kok lang na bo liau-kai Tai-gi, eng-oan bo hoat-tou liau-kai
Tai-oan-lang.
Chit-ku e-tang cho chhio-khoe, si in-ui Tai-oan-lang kam-kak Tiong-kok e
ap-pek.
Na bo, Tai-oan lang ma bo su-iau kong in phaiN-oe.
Au-sit-bin e chok-ka iong sit-bin gi-gian si-m-si chhi-tiuN e koan-he?
ChhiuN Taioan u kui-e goan-chu-bin chok-ka, ki-pun-siong si iong
Tiong-kok-oe sia-chok.
TADA
2009/5/11 Lau Seng-hian :
Tsit學期讀後殖民理論，關係「語言使用」ê後殖民策略，有1項kap tse相關，就是「F-word」ê書寫，比論：James Kelman ê How
late it was, how late內底大量使用英語ê "fuck"等等ê tshoh-kàn-kiāu
iah歹聽話，koh加上對英語語詞kap文法ê扭曲，來達成反殖民、對殖民者kap殖民語抗議ê目的。
換1句話講：國外ê後殖民作家khah濟是the̍h「殖民語」來ka蹧躂、ka變形、ka侮辱，用殖民語來tshoh-kàn-kiāu、來講歹聽話，thang損蕩殖民ê語言頂ē位結構。
咱ê做法khah稀罕，tú-tú
kap人顛倒píng，咱是the̍h咱已經hō͘人蹧躂兼鄙相ê母語來做「F-word」ê後殖民抗議，若正式ê聲明kap立場表達，suah顛倒khah
tsia̍p使用殖民者ê語言，寫kah suí-khuì koh tau-sau，án-ne ê做法，kám
m̄是teh助贊現此時gōng大眾對殖民語kap母語1 ê kuân 1 ê低、水準無siâng ê錯誤印象？
Hō͘ ta̍k-ê參考。
2009/5/12 google 阿凱
Goa jin-ui che chiu-si "wordplay". bo-iau-kin.
- Ko-jin siu-iong, ti-hui bo-kang. Tai-chiong ma-si an-ni, su-iau e
alleviation bo-kang.
- Han-ji "pun-toe" tioh bo kou-teng e thak-im. Kan-na hong-pian nia.
- Lan ai kau-iok lan e TOL m-thang choe lang e lou-chai. Kui kang
kan-na
e-hiau 請 謝謝 對不起, lan ma ai kau-iok beh an-choaN ma, an-choaN kiau
khah
sui-khui, khah sim-sek, ji-chhiaN lan ka-ki lang chiah khoaN u.
In 中國甲獅 chit-pian , goa siuN hoan-tui-e eng-kai chiu-si lan kho-pi
e
colonized TOL. In TKL eng-kai si bo chun-bun tioh.
Khai
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sêng-hiân"
To: "Tai-gu-bang"
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:23 PM
Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Guá teh siūⁿ…tshin-tshiūⁿ tsit khuán sú-īng Tâi-gí ê hong-sik (īng
pháiⁿ-thiaⁿ uē mā--lâng, 中國吃大便), kap tsin suî-ì ê bûn-jī sú-iōng
(Huâ-
gí Tâi-gí tho̍k-im thàu-lām tshìn-tshái sú-iōng), tuì Tâi-gí-bûn ūn-
tōng, tāu-té sī hó iah-sī bái?
On 5月11日, 上午10時56分, Hak-khiam TiuN wrote:
甲jia Hoa-gi e hoat-im, 獅sai Tai-gi hoat-im koh ka pian-cho te 2
siaN.
Hak-khiam
2009/5/11 Sêng-hiân :
Guá tha̍k tsit 4 jī sī "tiong-kok kah sai", ì-sù khah sîng sī:
"China
and the lion"…
On 5月10日, 下午6時37分, "Lim "
wrote:
Chheh-phaiN7-a2
Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi.
Khai
----- Original Message -----
From: Abon Lais
To: ;
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM
Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
abon ti 3teng-po
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
From: Lau Seng-hian
Date: 2009-05-12 23:38:53
Tsit半個月koh重讀Benedict Anderson ê Imagined Communities，我心內慢慢á有1 ê想法，tsit-ê想法，kap A天兄所分享ê代誌有tī-tāi。
是按怎香港有全香港話ê冊kap雜誌，結果tī台灣，台語文出版品suah真罕得看--kìnn？
翻頭看17-19世紀ê歷史，koh加上Anderson提出：「民族主義是印刷資本主義ê結果」ê主張，我雄雄致覺著：tse後壁lóng是資本主義teh做主。
香港話ê出版是按怎tī香港ē興？因為tī hia有tsit-ê市場，台灣話ê出版tī台灣是按怎一直做人tan袂tńg骨？因為無市場！
現此時1 ê有市場1ê無市場ê原因真複雜，he絕對m̄是有「自主意識」無「自主意識」就thang簡單pué會--ê，tak-ê會使想看覓（香港人ê獨立意識kám ē比台灣人khah強？騙鬼bē食水--koh！）koh，若tsit-ê考慮有理路，咱kám免sió想看beh按怎利用資本主義ê勢頭，思考咱ê策略？
2009/5/12 天
Ta̍kgê hó:
Goá chitmá tńglâi toà tī Tâipak, ū tangsî'á chhutkhì goākháu oânná teh kā lâng kóng hōló'oē. Ū tangsî'á pa̍tlâng soah mn̄g goá, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng 'kokgí' bē?" Goá kóng: "Ēhiáu." In to̍h ìn kóng, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng hoâgí, lí ná bô kóng hoâgí?"
Chiah'ê lóng sī 40-60 hoè ê lâng teh mn̄g ánne, in mā sī kài gâu kóng hōló'oē ê lâng.
Goá chitmá khah bô 30, lâng kóng goá seⁿ chò káná m̄ chai lán Asià tó chi̍t kok ê hoanná.
Sī ánchoáⁿ pa̍t kok ê siàuliânlâng lâi Tâi'oân ài kóng hoâgí khah chūjiân.
Goá bô beh koh thiaⁿ lâng kóng he sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê. Suijiân he teksi̍t sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê, m̄ koh chitmá íkeng sī lán teh chū'ngó͘ lāisi̍tbîn ah.
Tī Hiongkáng, in chitmá ū sekchêng cha̍pchì 100 pha chū thâu kàu boé lóng ēng Kńgtang'oē teh siá ê. In hia ha̍k'hāu mā bô teh kà hit ê gígiân. Hiah'ê hiāntāi hoâgí lāibīn m̄ bat khoàⁿ tio̍h ê hànjī, he mā m̄ sī ha̍k'hāu teh kà ê, in hia soah ta̍kgê lóng ēhiáu.
Só͘'í lán TGB ê hiaⁿché ài hō͘siong biánlē, lán ài tī "bô èngkai kóng hōló'oē" ê to͘ha̍p lâi kóng hōló'oē, iûkî tùi lán khah siàuliân ê chit ûn lâi kóng, hoānsè khah khùnlân.
天
2009/5/12 Lim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lim "
To: "台語網"
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 3:55 AM
Subject: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
Seng-hian hiaN kap Kok-ui,
Seng-hian hiaN kong liau pi goa sou kong koh-khah chheng-chho.
M-ku, Li kong lan kong "F-letter words" si "khah ke" e sia-hoe gi-gian.
Ki-sit ti hian-chu-si e Tai-oan sia-hoe, u tioh e sou-chai, ia u m-tioh e
sou-chai.
Tioh e sou-chai: Koan5 e sia-hoe gi-gian long kap cheng-hu kau-kiat. Lan
Tai-gi eng-oan bo ki-hoe, sou-i pian-seng ke e gi-gian.
M-tioh e sou-chai: gi-gian eng-kai boe in-ui i e chhou-oe, phaiN-thiaN oe
khah choe, tioh si khak chhou, khah bo chui-chun e gi-gian.
I-siong 2 hang long-si Political constructed e kiat-ko, ia chiu-si
colonized e kiat-ko.
Lan chin-chiaN ai chhoe ka-ki e chhut-lou. Lan TOL ai leng-goa kau-iok
ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e oe, choe lan ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e kou. An-ni
Lan chiah u hi-bang.
Ah, Na-si beh kek hou-i Genteel, hypocrisy, Tong-choe si subliming, HE
tioh chin-chiaN lu giam-tiong, chhiuN hia e eggheads in academic positions
hia e castrated toa KS ah. Lan TOL kong he tioh-si boLP.
Eng-gi thong-ti koe e sou-chai, in hia e li-lun, goa siuN, ki-sit bo
hia-nih ho thiaN. Lan chia ma u.
Tai-oan e Hoa-gi, oan-choan sit-khi kng-chih, kap iN-tun im, kam beh
kong-si pho-hoai Hoa-gi e hoat-im??
Lan Tai-gi e hoan2 infiltrate jip Hoa-gi, "pho-hoai" hoat-gi gi-hoat e
ma-si u. M-ku, che eng-kai si gi-gian chiap-siok e chu-jian hian-siong,
boe-tang kong si hoan-sit-bin, iah-si De-sit-bin.
Ti Tai-oan, chin-choe lang long liah-chun ka-ki kong hoa-gi kong kah
siah-siah kio, kam u hoan-kong Tai-liok ?? In hia e Eng-gi kam u hoan-kong
Eng-kok? hou eng-kok lang long kong hit-khoan de-sit-bin e Eng-gi? Goa
siuN, chit e gi-te, iah su-iau chin ku chin ku kap khong-kan lai phoe-hoe.
Khai
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kei TADA"
To: "台語網"
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 10:18 PM
Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Tai-oan-lang chit pah-ni lai, iong Tai-gi lai tui-khong sit-bin-chia.
Koe-khi long thang hou Jit-pun keng-chhat thiaN Tai-gi thiaN-liau bu
sa-sa.
"Tiong-kok chiah sai". Bat Tai-gi e lang chiah u hoat-tou chhio.
Tai-gi si Tai-oan lang pi-bit e ki-ho, u chit-e ke-tat, chin ho.
Tiong-kok lang na bo liau-kai Tai-gi, eng-oan bo hoat-tou liau-kai
Tai-oan-lang.
Chit-ku e-tang cho chhio-khoe, si in-ui Tai-oan-lang kam-kak Tiong-kok e
ap-pek.
Na bo, Tai-oan lang ma bo su-iau kong in phaiN-oe.
Au-sit-bin e chok-ka iong sit-bin gi-gian si-m-si chhi-tiuN e koan-he?
ChhiuN Taioan u kui-e goan-chu-bin chok-ka, ki-pun-siong si iong
Tiong-kok-oe sia-chok.
TADA
2009/5/11 Lau Seng-hian :
Tsit學期讀後殖民理論，關係「語言使用」ê後殖民策略，有1項kap tse相關，就是「F-word」ê書寫，比論：James Kelman ê How
late it was, how late內底大量使用英語ê "fuck"等等ê tshoh-kàn-kiāu
iah歹聽話，koh加上對英語語詞kap文法ê扭曲，來達成反殖民、對殖民者kap殖民語抗議ê目的。
換1句話講：國外ê後殖民作家khah濟是the̍h「殖民語」來ka蹧躂、ka變形、ka侮辱，用殖民語來tshoh-kàn-kiāu、來講歹聽話，thang損蕩殖民ê語言頂ē位結構。
咱ê做法khah稀罕，tú-tú
kap人顛倒píng，咱是the̍h咱已經hō͘人蹧躂兼鄙相ê母語來做「F-word」ê後殖民抗議，若正式ê聲明kap立場表達，suah顛倒khah
tsia̍p使用殖民者ê語言，寫kah suí-khuì koh tau-sau，án-ne ê做法，kám
m̄是teh助贊現此時gōng大眾對殖民語kap母語1 ê kuân 1 ê低、水準無siâng ê錯誤印象？
Hō͘ ta̍k-ê參考。
2009/5/12 google 阿凱
Goa jin-ui che chiu-si "wordplay". bo-iau-kin.
- Ko-jin siu-iong, ti-hui bo-kang. Tai-chiong ma-si an-ni, su-iau e
alleviation bo-kang.
- Han-ji "pun-toe" tioh bo kou-teng e thak-im. Kan-na hong-pian nia.
- Lan ai kau-iok lan e TOL m-thang choe lang e lou-chai. Kui kang
kan-na
e-hiau 請 謝謝 對不起, lan ma ai kau-iok beh an-choaN ma, an-choaN kiau
khah
sui-khui, khah sim-sek, ji-chhiaN lan ka-ki lang chiah khoaN u.
In 中國甲獅 chit-pian , goa siuN hoan-tui-e eng-kai chiu-si lan kho-pi
e
colonized TOL. In TKL eng-kai si bo chun-bun tioh.
Khai
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sêng-hiân"
To: "Tai-gu-bang"
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:23 PM
Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Guá teh siūⁿ…tshin-tshiūⁿ tsit khuán sú-īng Tâi-gí ê hong-sik (īng
pháiⁿ-thiaⁿ uē mā--lâng, 中國吃大便), kap tsin suî-ì ê bûn-jī sú-iōng
(Huâ-
gí Tâi-gí tho̍k-im thàu-lām tshìn-tshái sú-iōng), tuì Tâi-gí-bûn ūn-
tōng, tāu-té sī hó iah-sī bái?
On 5月11日, 上午10時56分, Hak-khiam TiuN wrote:
甲jia Hoa-gi e hoat-im, 獅sai Tai-gi hoat-im koh ka pian-cho te 2
siaN.
Hak-khiam
2009/5/11 Sêng-hiân :
Guá tha̍k tsit 4 jī sī "tiong-kok kah sai", ì-sù khah sîng sī:
"China
and the lion"…
On 5月10日, 下午6時37分, "Lim "
wrote:
Chheh-phaiN7-a2
Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi.
Khai
----- Original Message -----
From: Abon Lais
To: ;
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM
Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
abon ti 3teng-po
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
From: 施俊州
Date: 2009-05-13 06:24:49
前1 tsam-a寫1篇關係胡民祥e論文, 節錄ti e-bin. 內底有sio-khua-a khap tioh 1970年前後 台語片kap粤語片 ti 所謂 ''國片'' e ''競爭'' 之下 tsam-jian-a無kang e ''下場''(附件3-4頁,主要引學者e研究). 個人見解是: 天 kap承賢e見解long無錯. M-koh,
以Marx ''determine'' (決定) tsit-e術語kap連帶e理論內涵來看, 以電影產業來看, 1960s是關鍵期, 是政治(政府, 殖民)leh ''決定'', Ah tsit-ma(當代, 1970/80-2009)恐驚無完全是 ''經濟,'' koh-khah m是政治leh(直接) ''決定.'' 1970國民黨 ''拗''--過-來以後,
消費品味(tsate)kap意識形態e角色lu來lu '' tsiah-lat.'' 理路理清, 承賢以 ''資本主義'' 救台語文化e步數tsiah有效. 以上理論背景來ti Bourdieu e ''場域(field)''理論, i 並無放棄
Marx 經濟 ''決定論'' e思考模式, 只是ka 市場分koh-khah幼, 資本類型分koh-khah多元, 而且有實證研究做té-tì. Bong參考.
俊州
2009/5/12 Lau Seng-hian
Tsit半個月koh重讀Benedict Anderson ê Imagined Communities，我心內慢慢á有1 ê想法，tsit-ê想法，kap A天兄所分享ê代誌有tī-tāi。
是按怎香港有全香港話ê冊kap雜誌，結果tī台灣，台語文出版品suah真罕得看--kìnn？
翻頭看17-19世紀ê歷史，koh加上Anderson提出：「民族主義是印刷資本主義ê結果」ê主張，我雄雄致覺著：tse後壁lóng是資本主義teh做主。
香港話ê出版是按怎tī香港ē興？因為tī hia有tsit-ê市場，台灣話ê出版tī台灣是按怎一直做人tan袂tńg骨？因為無市場！
現此時1 ê有市場1ê無市場ê原因真複雜，he絕對m̄是有「自主意識」無「自主意識」就thang簡單pué會--ê，tak-ê會使想看覓（香港人ê獨立意識kám ē比台灣人khah強？騙鬼bē食水--koh！）koh，若tsit-ê考慮有理路，咱kám免sió想看beh按怎利用資本主義ê勢頭，思考咱ê策略？
2009/5/12 天
Ta̍kgê hó:
Goá chitmá tńglâi toà tī Tâipak, ū tangsî'á chhutkhì goākháu oânná teh kā lâng kóng hōló'oē. Ū tangsî'á pa̍tlâng soah mn̄g goá, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng 'kokgí' bē?" Goá kóng: "Ēhiáu." In to̍h ìn kóng, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng hoâgí, lí ná bô kóng hoâgí?"
Chiah'ê lóng sī 40-60 hoè ê lâng teh mn̄g ánne, in mā sī kài gâu kóng hōló'oē ê lâng.
Goá chitmá khah bô 30, lâng kóng goá seⁿ chò káná m̄ chai lán Asià tó chi̍t kok ê hoanná.
Sī ánchoáⁿ pa̍t kok ê siàuliânlâng lâi Tâi'oân ài kóng hoâgí khah chūjiân.
Goá bô beh koh thiaⁿ lâng kóng he sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê. Suijiân he teksi̍t sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê, m̄ koh chitmá íkeng sī lán teh chū'ngó͘ lāisi̍tbîn ah.
Tī Hiongkáng, in chitmá ū sekchêng cha̍pchì 100 pha chū thâu kàu boé lóng ēng Kńgtang'oē teh siá ê. In hia ha̍k'hāu mā bô teh kà hit ê gígiân. Hiah'ê hiāntāi hoâgí lāibīn m̄ bat khoàⁿ tio̍h ê hànjī, he mā m̄ sī ha̍k'hāu teh kà ê, in hia soah ta̍kgê lóng ēhiáu.
Só͘'í lán TGB ê hiaⁿché ài hō͘siong biánlē, lán ài tī "bô èngkai kóng hōló'oē" ê to͘ha̍p lâi kóng hōló'oē, iûkî tùi lán khah siàuliân ê chit ûn lâi kóng, hoānsè khah khùnlân.
天
2009/5/12 Lim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lim "
To: "台語網"
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 3:55 AM
Subject: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
Seng-hian hiaN kap Kok-ui,
Seng-hian hiaN kong liau pi goa sou kong koh-khah chheng-chho.
M-ku, Li kong lan kong "F-letter words" si "khah ke" e sia-hoe gi-gian.
Ki-sit ti hian-chu-si e Tai-oan sia-hoe, u tioh e sou-chai, ia u m-tioh e
sou-chai.
Tioh e sou-chai: Koan5 e sia-hoe gi-gian long kap cheng-hu kau-kiat. Lan
Tai-gi eng-oan bo ki-hoe, sou-i pian-seng ke e gi-gian.
M-tioh e sou-chai: gi-gian eng-kai boe in-ui i e chhou-oe, phaiN-thiaN oe
khah choe, tioh si khak chhou, khah bo chui-chun e gi-gian.
I-siong 2 hang long-si Political constructed e kiat-ko, ia chiu-si
colonized e kiat-ko.
Lan chin-chiaN ai chhoe ka-ki e chhut-lou. Lan TOL ai leng-goa kau-iok
ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e oe, choe lan ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e kou. An-ni
Lan chiah u hi-bang.
Ah, Na-si beh kek hou-i Genteel, hypocrisy, Tong-choe si subliming, HE
tioh chin-chiaN lu giam-tiong, chhiuN hia e eggheads in academic positions
hia e castrated toa KS ah. Lan TOL kong he tioh-si boLP.
Eng-gi thong-ti koe e sou-chai, in hia e li-lun, goa siuN, ki-sit bo
hia-nih ho thiaN. Lan chia ma u.
Tai-oan e Hoa-gi, oan-choan sit-khi kng-chih, kap iN-tun im, kam beh
kong-si pho-hoai Hoa-gi e hoat-im??
Lan Tai-gi e hoan2 infiltrate jip Hoa-gi, "pho-hoai" hoat-gi gi-hoat e
ma-si u. M-ku, che eng-kai si gi-gian chiap-siok e chu-jian hian-siong,
boe-tang kong si hoan-sit-bin, iah-si De-sit-bin.
Ti Tai-oan, chin-choe lang long liah-chun ka-ki kong hoa-gi kong kah
siah-siah kio, kam u hoan-kong Tai-liok ?? In hia e Eng-gi kam u hoan-kong
Eng-kok? hou eng-kok lang long kong hit-khoan de-sit-bin e Eng-gi? Goa
siuN, chit e gi-te, iah su-iau chin ku chin ku kap khong-kan lai phoe-hoe.
Khai
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kei TADA"
To: "台語網"
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 10:18 PM
Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Tai-oan-lang chit pah-ni lai, iong Tai-gi lai tui-khong sit-bin-chia.
Koe-khi long thang hou Jit-pun keng-chhat thiaN Tai-gi thiaN-liau bu
sa-sa.
"Tiong-kok chiah sai". Bat Tai-gi e lang chiah u hoat-tou chhio.
Tai-gi si Tai-oan lang pi-bit e ki-ho, u chit-e ke-tat, chin ho.
Tiong-kok lang na bo liau-kai Tai-gi, eng-oan bo hoat-tou liau-kai
Tai-oan-lang.
Chit-ku e-tang cho chhio-khoe, si in-ui Tai-oan-lang kam-kak Tiong-kok e
ap-pek.
Na bo, Tai-oan lang ma bo su-iau kong in phaiN-oe.
Au-sit-bin e chok-ka iong sit-bin gi-gian si-m-si chhi-tiuN e koan-he?
ChhiuN Taioan u kui-e goan-chu-bin chok-ka, ki-pun-siong si iong
Tiong-kok-oe sia-chok.
TADA
2009/5/11 Lau Seng-hian :
Tsit學期讀後殖民理論，關係「語言使用」ê後殖民策略，有1項kap tse相關，就是「F-word」ê書寫，比論：James Kelman ê How
late it was, how late內底大量使用英語ê "fuck"等等ê tshoh-kàn-kiāu
iah歹聽話，koh加上對英語語詞kap文法ê扭曲，來達成反殖民、對殖民者kap殖民語抗議ê目的。
換1句話講：國外ê後殖民作家khah濟是the̍h「殖民語」來ka蹧躂、ka變形、ka侮辱，用殖民語來tshoh-kàn-kiāu、來講歹聽話，thang損蕩殖民ê語言頂ē位結構。
咱ê做法khah稀罕，tú-tú
kap人顛倒píng，咱是the̍h咱已經hō͘人蹧躂兼鄙相ê母語來做「F-word」ê後殖民抗議，若正式ê聲明kap立場表達，suah顛倒khah
tsia̍p使用殖民者ê語言，寫kah suí-khuì koh tau-sau，án-ne ê做法，kám
m̄是teh助贊現此時gōng大眾對殖民語kap母語1 ê kuân 1 ê低、水準無siâng ê錯誤印象？
Hō͘ ta̍k-ê參考。
2009/5/12 google 阿凱
Goa jin-ui che chiu-si "wordplay". bo-iau-kin.
- Ko-jin siu-iong, ti-hui bo-kang. Tai-chiong ma-si an-ni, su-iau e
alleviation bo-kang.
- Han-ji "pun-toe" tioh bo kou-teng e thak-im. Kan-na hong-pian nia.
- Lan ai kau-iok lan e TOL m-thang choe lang e lou-chai. Kui kang
kan-na
e-hiau 請 謝謝 對不起, lan ma ai kau-iok beh an-choaN ma, an-choaN kiau
khah
sui-khui, khah sim-sek, ji-chhiaN lan ka-ki lang chiah khoaN u.
In 中國甲獅 chit-pian , goa siuN hoan-tui-e eng-kai chiu-si lan kho-pi
e
colonized TOL. In TKL eng-kai si bo chun-bun tioh.
Khai
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sêng-hiân"
To: "Tai-gu-bang"
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:23 PM
Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Guá teh siūⁿ…tshin-tshiūⁿ tsit khuán sú-īng Tâi-gí ê hong-sik (īng
pháiⁿ-thiaⁿ uē mā--lâng, 中國吃大便), kap tsin suî-ì ê bûn-jī sú-iōng
(Huâ-
gí Tâi-gí tho̍k-im thàu-lām tshìn-tshái sú-iōng), tuì Tâi-gí-bûn ūn-
tōng, tāu-té sī hó iah-sī bái?
On 5月11日, 上午10時56分, Hak-khiam TiuN wrote:
甲jia Hoa-gi e hoat-im, 獅sai Tai-gi hoat-im koh ka pian-cho te 2
siaN.
Hak-khiam
2009/5/11 Sêng-hiân :
Guá tha̍k tsit 4 jī sī "tiong-kok kah sai", ì-sù khah sîng sī:
"China
and the lion"…
On 5月10日, 下午6時37分, "Lim "
wrote:
Chheh-phaiN7-a2
Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi.
Khai
----- Original Message -----
From: Abon Lais
To: ;
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM
Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
abon ti 3teng-po
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
From: Lau Seng-hian
Date: 2009-05-13 08:54:47
俊州：
真多謝！Tsit篇拄好thang提來參考，明仔載上課犯勢ē討論--tio̍h mā無的確。
有1件請教，香港話ê書寫mā無政府ê介入做規範（個人印象），m̄-koh in ê出版發展，suah tú-tú親像 Anderson 所舉歐洲ê例，是因為市場ê因素，出版商本身去做sio整會ê khang-khuè，也就是講：香港人無親像台灣人予華語文ê意識型態束縛，無親像台灣民間有hit種kā台語文當做華語次文類，無致重文字使用ê現象，tsit-ê後壁ê起致我真hòonn-hiân。
Sêng-hiân
2009/5/13 施俊州
前1 tsam-a寫1篇關係胡民祥e論文, 節錄ti e-bin. 內底有sio-khua-a khap tioh 1970年前後 台語片kap粤語片 ti 所謂 ''國片'' e ''競爭'' 之下 tsam-jian-a無kang e ''下場''(附件3-4頁,主要引學者e研究). 個人見解是: 天 kap承賢e見解long無錯. M-koh,
以Marx ''determine'' (決定) tsit-e術語kap連帶e理論內涵來看, 以電影產業來看, 1960s是關鍵期, 是政治(政府, 殖民)leh ''決定'', Ah tsit-ma(當代, 1970/80-2009)恐驚無完全是 ''經濟,'' koh-khah m是政治leh(直接) ''決定.'' 1970國民黨 ''拗''--過-來以後,
消費品味(tsate)kap意識形態e角色lu來lu '' tsiah-lat.'' 理路理清, 承賢以 ''資本主義'' 救台語文化e步數tsiah有效. 以上理論背景來ti Bourdieu e ''場域(field)''理論, i 並無放棄
Marx 經濟 ''決定論'' e思考模式, 只是ka 市場分koh-khah幼, 資本類型分koh-khah多元, 而且有實證研究做té-tì. Bong參考.
俊州
2009/5/12 Lau Seng-hian
Tsit半個月koh重讀Benedict Anderson ê Imagined Communities，我心內慢慢á有1 ê想法，tsit-ê想法，kap A天兄所分享ê代誌有tī-tāi。
是按怎香港有全香港話ê冊kap雜誌，結果tī台灣，台語文出版品suah真罕得看--kìnn？
翻頭看17-19世紀ê歷史，koh加上Anderson提出：「民族主義是印刷資本主義ê結果」ê主張，我雄雄致覺著：tse後壁lóng是資本主義teh做主。
香港話ê出版是按怎tī香港ē興？因為tī hia有tsit-ê市場，台灣話ê出版tī台灣是按怎一直做人tan袂tńg骨？因為無市場！
現此時1 ê有市場1ê無市場ê原因真複雜，he絕對m̄是有「自主意識」無「自主意識」就thang簡單pué會--ê，tak-ê會使想看覓（香港人ê獨立意識kám ē比台灣人khah強？騙鬼bē食水--koh！）koh，若tsit-ê考慮有理路，咱kám免sió想看beh按怎利用資本主義ê勢頭，思考咱ê策略？
2009/5/12 天
Ta̍kgê hó:
Goá chitmá tńglâi toà tī Tâipak, ū tangsî'á chhutkhì goākháu oânná teh kā lâng kóng hōló'oē. Ū tangsî'á pa̍tlâng soah mn̄g goá, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng 'kokgí' bē?" Goá kóng: "Ēhiáu." In to̍h ìn kóng, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng hoâgí, lí ná bô kóng hoâgí?"
Chiah'ê lóng sī 40-60 hoè ê lâng teh mn̄g ánne, in mā sī kài gâu kóng hōló'oē ê lâng.
Goá chitmá khah bô 30, lâng kóng goá seⁿ chò káná m̄ chai lán Asià tó chi̍t kok ê hoanná.
Sī ánchoáⁿ pa̍t kok ê siàuliânlâng lâi Tâi'oân ài kóng hoâgí khah chūjiân.
Goá bô beh koh thiaⁿ lâng kóng he sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê. Suijiân he teksi̍t sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê, m̄ koh chitmá íkeng sī lán teh chū'ngó͘ lāisi̍tbîn ah.
Tī Hiongkáng, in chitmá ū sekchêng cha̍pchì 100 pha chū thâu kàu boé lóng ēng Kńgtang'oē teh siá ê. In hia ha̍k'hāu mā bô teh kà hit ê gígiân. Hiah'ê hiāntāi hoâgí lāibīn m̄ bat khoàⁿ tio̍h ê hànjī, he mā m̄ sī ha̍k'hāu teh kà ê, in hia soah ta̍kgê lóng ēhiáu.
Só͘'í lán TGB ê hiaⁿché ài hō͘siong biánlē, lán ài tī "bô èngkai kóng hōló'oē" ê to͘ha̍p lâi kóng hōló'oē, iûkî tùi lán khah siàuliân ê chit ûn lâi kóng, hoānsè khah khùnlân.
天
2009/5/12 Lim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lim "
To: "台語網"
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 3:55 AM
Subject: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
Seng-hian hiaN kap Kok-ui,
Seng-hian hiaN kong liau pi goa sou kong koh-khah chheng-chho.
M-ku, Li kong lan kong "F-letter words" si "khah ke" e sia-hoe gi-gian.
Ki-sit ti hian-chu-si e Tai-oan sia-hoe, u tioh e sou-chai, ia u m-tioh e
sou-chai.
Tioh e sou-chai: Koan5 e sia-hoe gi-gian long kap cheng-hu kau-kiat. Lan
Tai-gi eng-oan bo ki-hoe, sou-i pian-seng ke e gi-gian.
M-tioh e sou-chai: gi-gian eng-kai boe in-ui i e chhou-oe, phaiN-thiaN oe
khah choe, tioh si khak chhou, khah bo chui-chun e gi-gian.
I-siong 2 hang long-si Political constructed e kiat-ko, ia chiu-si
colonized e kiat-ko.
Lan chin-chiaN ai chhoe ka-ki e chhut-lou. Lan TOL ai leng-goa kau-iok
ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e oe, choe lan ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e kou. An-ni
Lan chiah u hi-bang.
Ah, Na-si beh kek hou-i Genteel, hypocrisy, Tong-choe si subliming, HE
tioh chin-chiaN lu giam-tiong, chhiuN hia e eggheads in academic positions
hia e castrated toa KS ah. Lan TOL kong he tioh-si boLP.
Eng-gi thong-ti koe e sou-chai, in hia e li-lun, goa siuN, ki-sit bo
hia-nih ho thiaN. Lan chia ma u.
Tai-oan e Hoa-gi, oan-choan sit-khi kng-chih, kap iN-tun im, kam beh
kong-si pho-hoai Hoa-gi e hoat-im??
Lan Tai-gi e hoan2 infiltrate jip Hoa-gi, "pho-hoai" hoat-gi gi-hoat e
ma-si u. M-ku, che eng-kai si gi-gian chiap-siok e chu-jian hian-siong,
boe-tang kong si hoan-sit-bin, iah-si De-sit-bin.
Ti Tai-oan, chin-choe lang long liah-chun ka-ki kong hoa-gi kong kah
siah-siah kio, kam u hoan-kong Tai-liok ?? In hia e Eng-gi kam u hoan-kong
Eng-kok? hou eng-kok lang long kong hit-khoan de-sit-bin e Eng-gi? Goa
siuN, chit e gi-te, iah su-iau chin ku chin ku kap khong-kan lai phoe-hoe.
Khai
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kei TADA"
To: "台語網"
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 10:18 PM
Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Tai-oan-lang chit pah-ni lai, iong Tai-gi lai tui-khong sit-bin-chia.
Koe-khi long thang hou Jit-pun keng-chhat thiaN Tai-gi thiaN-liau bu
sa-sa.
"Tiong-kok chiah sai". Bat Tai-gi e lang chiah u hoat-tou chhio.
Tai-gi si Tai-oan lang pi-bit e ki-ho, u chit-e ke-tat, chin ho.
Tiong-kok lang na bo liau-kai Tai-gi, eng-oan bo hoat-tou liau-kai
Tai-oan-lang.
Chit-ku e-tang cho chhio-khoe, si in-ui Tai-oan-lang kam-kak Tiong-kok e
ap-pek.
Na bo, Tai-oan lang ma bo su-iau kong in phaiN-oe.
Au-sit-bin e chok-ka iong sit-bin gi-gian si-m-si chhi-tiuN e koan-he?
ChhiuN Taioan u kui-e goan-chu-bin chok-ka, ki-pun-siong si iong
Tiong-kok-oe sia-chok.
TADA
2009/5/11 Lau Seng-hian :
Tsit學期讀後殖民理論，關係「語言使用」ê後殖民策略，有1項kap tse相關，就是「F-word」ê書寫，比論：James Kelman ê How
late it was, how late內底大量使用英語ê "fuck"等等ê tshoh-kàn-kiāu
iah歹聽話，koh加上對英語語詞kap文法ê扭曲，來達成反殖民、對殖民者kap殖民語抗議ê目的。
換1句話講：國外ê後殖民作家khah濟是the̍h「殖民語」來ka蹧躂、ka變形、ka侮辱，用殖民語來tshoh-kàn-kiāu、來講歹聽話，thang損蕩殖民ê語言頂ē位結構。
咱ê做法khah稀罕，tú-tú
kap人顛倒píng，咱是the̍h咱已經hō͘人蹧躂兼鄙相ê母語來做「F-word」ê後殖民抗議，若正式ê聲明kap立場表達，suah顛倒khah
tsia̍p使用殖民者ê語言，寫kah suí-khuì koh tau-sau，án-ne ê做法，kám
m̄是teh助贊現此時gōng大眾對殖民語kap母語1 ê kuân 1 ê低、水準無siâng ê錯誤印象？
Hō͘ ta̍k-ê參考。
2009/5/12 google 阿凱
Goa jin-ui che chiu-si "wordplay". bo-iau-kin.
- Ko-jin siu-iong, ti-hui bo-kang. Tai-chiong ma-si an-ni, su-iau e
alleviation bo-kang.
- Han-ji "pun-toe" tioh bo kou-teng e thak-im. Kan-na hong-pian nia.
- Lan ai kau-iok lan e TOL m-thang choe lang e lou-chai. Kui kang
kan-na
e-hiau 請 謝謝 對不起, lan ma ai kau-iok beh an-choaN ma, an-choaN kiau
khah
sui-khui, khah sim-sek, ji-chhiaN lan ka-ki lang chiah khoaN u.
In 中國甲獅 chit-pian , goa siuN hoan-tui-e eng-kai chiu-si lan kho-pi
e
colonized TOL. In TKL eng-kai si bo chun-bun tioh.
Khai
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sêng-hiân"
To: "Tai-gu-bang"
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:23 PM
Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Guá teh siūⁿ…tshin-tshiūⁿ tsit khuán sú-īng Tâi-gí ê hong-sik (īng
pháiⁿ-thiaⁿ uē mā--lâng, 中國吃大便), kap tsin suî-ì ê bûn-jī sú-iōng
(Huâ-
gí Tâi-gí tho̍k-im thàu-lām tshìn-tshái sú-iōng), tuì Tâi-gí-bûn ūn-
tōng, tāu-té sī hó iah-sī bái?
On 5月11日, 上午10時56分, Hak-khiam TiuN wrote:
甲jia Hoa-gi e hoat-im, 獅sai Tai-gi hoat-im koh ka pian-cho te 2
siaN.
Hak-khiam
2009/5/11 Sêng-hiân :
Guá tha̍k tsit 4 jī sī "tiong-kok kah sai", ì-sù khah sîng sī:
"China
and the lion"…
On 5月10日, 下午6時37分, "Lim "
wrote:
Chheh-phaiN7-a2
Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi.
Khai
----- Original Message -----
From: Abon Lais
To: ;
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM
Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
abon ti 3teng-po
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
--
Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: Cynic beh án-choáⁿ hoan-e̍k
From: Lim Jukhai
Date: 2009-05-13 09:55:32
Goá khoàN tio̍h ê ū tē-khu chha-pia̍t choè kūn teh khoàN "A Mighty Heart", He sī tī tiong-tang hia, Goá siūⁿ lāi-toé ê ì-sù eng-kai bô chiah hok-cha̍p. Tio̍h sī kóng khoàⁿ pò-choá khoàⁿ liáu ê hoán-èng ē CYNIC, an-ni.M̄-koh, iah-sī boē-tàng kái-koat chit ê hoan-e̍k ê būn-toê.
Khai
2009/5/11 Lau Seng-hian
Sió揣kuá資料來看了後，發覺cynic(al) tsit-ê詞現此時時行ê意思，kap i 原底ê意思（也就是hit-ê希臘哲學學派所提倡ê哲學觀）已經kui-ê 走tsing--去-a。
Kah-nā i ê意思已經變--a，我想就照 i taⁿ 通行 ê 意思去創詞khah好。
Cynic ê詞源，是「親像狗」ê意思，tse 也是日語ē ka翻譯做「犬儒學派」ê因端，tsit-ê和製漢語後--來去hō͘華語吸收，變做咱所知ê華語詞。
Taⁿ 一般人講 cynic ê意思，是講無相信人性 ê 善，對人、社會kap制度抱giâu疑ê態度，tsit-ê情形，台語有1 ê 淡薄á khah倚ê詞講「臭疑」，若koh加上i自早ê希臘語ê詞源意義，án-ne thang考慮ka 加 1 字「狗」，kap「臭疑」另家各食，自按呢創詞：「狗臭疑」。
Tshit-thô suah--a ^^a
2009/5/11 Lim
Ko-ūi,
cynic, in hôa-gí hoan chòe "憤世嫉俗". Ah lán Tâi-gí leh?
Khai
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
--
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
From: Hak-khiam TiuN
Date: 2009-05-13 10:05:16
Koan-he Kng-tang-oe su-sia, e-tang chham-kho Dr. Don Snow, Written Cantonese and the rise of written vernaculars I e phok-su lun-bun ma u pi-kau Tai-oan kah Hiong-kang pun-te-gi su-sia e bo-kang.Hak-khiam 2009/5/13 Lau Seng-hian :
俊州：
真多謝！Tsit篇拄好thang提來參考，明仔載上課犯勢ē討論--tio̍h mā無的確。
有1件請教，香港話ê書寫mā無政府ê介入做規範（個人印象），m̄-koh in ê出版發展，suah tú-tú親像 Anderson 所舉歐洲ê例，是因為市場ê因素，出版商本身去做sio整會ê khang-khuè，也就是講：香港人無親像台灣人予華語文ê意識型態束縛，無親像台灣民間有hit種kā台語文當做華語次文類，無致重文字使用ê現象，tsit-ê後壁ê起致我真hòonn-hiân。
Sêng-hiân
2009/5/13 施俊州
前1 tsam-a寫1篇關係胡民祥e論文, 節錄ti e-bin. 內底有sio-khua-a khap tioh 1970年前後 台語片kap粤語片 ti 所謂 ''國片'' e ''競爭'' 之下 tsam-jian-a無kang e ''下場''(附件3-4頁,主要引學者e研究). 個人見解是: 天 kap承賢e見解long無錯. M-koh, 以Marx ''determine'' (決定) tsit-e術語kap連帶e理論內涵來看, 以電影產業來看, 1960s是關鍵期, 是政治(政府, 殖民)leh ''決定'', Ah tsit-ma(當代, 1970/80-2009)恐驚無完全是 ''經濟,'' koh-khah m是政治leh(直接) ''決定.'' 1970國民黨 ''拗''--過-來以後, 消費品味(tsate)kap意識形態e角色lu來lu '' tsiah-lat.'' 理路理清, 承賢以 ''資本主義'' 救台語文化e步數tsiah有效. 以上理論背景來ti Bourdieu e ''場域(field)''理論, i 並無放棄 Marx 經濟 ''決定論'' e思考模式, 只是ka 市場分koh-khah幼, 資本類型分koh-khah多元, 而且有實證研究做té-tì. Bong參考.
俊州
2009/5/12 Lau Seng-hian
Tsit半個月koh重讀Benedict Anderson ê Imagined Communities，我心內慢慢á有1 ê想法，tsit-ê想法，kap A天兄所分享ê代誌有tī-tāi。
是按怎香港有全香港話ê冊kap雜誌，結果tī台灣，台語文出版品suah真罕得看--kìnn？
翻頭看17-19世紀ê歷史，koh加上Anderson提出：「民族主義是印刷資本主義ê結果」ê主張，我雄雄致覺著：tse後壁lóng是資本主義teh做主。
香港話ê出版是按怎tī香港ē興？因為tī hia有tsit-ê市場，台灣話ê出版tī台灣是按怎一直做人tan袂tńg骨？因為無市場！
現此時1 ê有市場1ê無市場ê原因真複雜，he絕對m̄是有「自主意識」無「自主意識」就thang簡單pué會--ê，tak-ê會使想看覓（香港人ê獨立意識kám ē比台灣人khah強？騙鬼bē食水--koh！）koh，若tsit-ê考慮有理路，咱kám免sió想看beh按怎利用資本主義ê勢頭，思考咱ê策略？
2009/5/12 天
Ta̍kgê hó:
Goá chitmá tńglâi toà tī Tâipak, ū tangsî'á chhutkhì goākháu oânná teh kā lâng kóng hōló'oē. Ū tangsî'á pa̍tlâng soah mn̄g goá, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng 'kokgí' bē?" Goá kóng: "Ēhiáu." In to̍h ìn kóng, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng hoâgí, lí ná bô kóng hoâgí?"
Chiah'ê lóng sī 40-60 hoè ê lâng teh mn̄g ánne, in mā sī kài gâu kóng hōló'oē ê lâng.
Goá chitmá khah bô 30, lâng kóng goá seⁿ chò káná m̄ chai lán Asià tó chi̍t kok ê hoanná.
Sī ánchoáⁿ pa̍t kok ê siàuliânlâng lâi Tâi'oân ài kóng hoâgí khah chūjiân.
Goá bô beh koh thiaⁿ lâng kóng he sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê. Suijiân he teksi̍t sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê, m̄ koh chitmá íkeng sī lán teh chū'ngó͘ lāisi̍tbîn ah.
Tī Hiongkáng, in chitmá ū sekchêng cha̍pchì 100 pha chū thâu kàu boé lóng ēng Kńgtang'oē teh siá ê. In hia ha̍k'hāu mā bô teh kà hit ê gígiân. Hiah'ê hiāntāi hoâgí lāibīn m̄ bat khoàⁿ tio̍h ê hànjī, he mā m̄ sī ha̍k'hāu teh kà ê, in hia soah ta̍kgê lóng ēhiáu.
Só͘'í lán TGB ê hiaⁿché ài hō͘siong biánlē, lán ài tī "bô èngkai kóng hōló'oē" ê to͘ha̍p lâi kóng hōló'oē, iûkî tùi lán khah siàuliân ê chit ûn lâi kóng, hoānsè khah khùnlân.
天
2009/5/12 Lim
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lim " To: "台語網" Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 3:55 AM Subject: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
Seng-hian hiaN kap Kok-ui,
Seng-hian hiaN kong liau pi goa sou kong koh-khah chheng-chho. M-ku, Li kong lan kong "F-letter words" si "khah ke" e sia-hoe gi-gian. Ki-sit ti hian-chu-si e Tai-oan sia-hoe, u tioh e sou-chai, ia u m-tioh e sou-chai. Tioh e sou-chai: Koan5 e sia-hoe gi-gian long kap cheng-hu kau-kiat. Lan Tai-gi eng-oan bo ki-hoe, sou-i pian-seng ke e gi-gian. M-tioh e sou-chai: gi-gian eng-kai boe in-ui i e chhou-oe, phaiN-thiaN oe khah choe, tioh si khak chhou, khah bo chui-chun e gi-gian. I-siong 2 hang long-si Political constructed e kiat-ko, ia chiu-si colonized e kiat-ko.
Lan chin-chiaN ai chhoe ka-ki e chhut-lou. Lan TOL ai leng-goa kau-iok ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e oe, choe lan ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e kou. An-ni Lan chiah u hi-bang. Ah, Na-si beh kek hou-i Genteel, hypocrisy, Tong-choe si subliming, HE tioh chin-chiaN lu giam-tiong, chhiuN hia e eggheads in academic positions hia e castrated toa KS ah. Lan TOL kong he tioh-si boLP.
Eng-gi thong-ti koe e sou-chai, in hia e li-lun, goa siuN, ki-sit bo hia-nih ho thiaN. Lan chia ma u. Tai-oan e Hoa-gi, oan-choan sit-khi kng-chih, kap iN-tun im, kam beh kong-si pho-hoai Hoa-gi e hoat-im?? Lan Tai-gi e hoan2 infiltrate jip Hoa-gi, "pho-hoai" hoat-gi gi-hoat e ma-si u. M-ku, che eng-kai si gi-gian chiap-siok e chu-jian hian-siong, boe-tang kong si hoan-sit-bin, iah-si De-sit-bin. Ti Tai-oan, chin-choe lang long liah-chun ka-ki kong hoa-gi kong kah siah-siah kio, kam u hoan-kong Tai-liok ?? In hia e Eng-gi kam u hoan-kong Eng-kok? hou eng-kok lang long kong hit-khoan de-sit-bin e Eng-gi? Goa siuN, chit e gi-te, iah su-iau chin ku chin ku kap khong-kan lai phoe-hoe.
Khai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kei TADA" To: "台語網" Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 10:18 PM Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Tai-oan-lang chit pah-ni lai, iong Tai-gi lai tui-khong sit-bin-chia.
Koe-khi long thang hou Jit-pun keng-chhat thiaN Tai-gi thiaN-liau bu sa-sa.
"Tiong-kok chiah sai". Bat Tai-gi e lang chiah u hoat-tou chhio.
Tai-gi si Tai-oan lang pi-bit e ki-ho, u chit-e ke-tat, chin ho.
Tiong-kok lang na bo liau-kai Tai-gi, eng-oan bo hoat-tou liau-kai Tai-oan-lang.
Chit-ku e-tang cho chhio-khoe, si in-ui Tai-oan-lang kam-kak Tiong-kok e ap-pek.
Na bo, Tai-oan lang ma bo su-iau kong in phaiN-oe.
Au-sit-bin e chok-ka iong sit-bin gi-gian si-m-si chhi-tiuN e koan-he?
ChhiuN Taioan u kui-e goan-chu-bin chok-ka, ki-pun-siong si iong Tiong-kok-oe sia-chok.
TADA
2009/5/11 Lau Seng-hian :
Tsit學期讀後殖民理論，關係「語言使用」ê後殖民策略，有1項kap tse相關，就是「F-word」ê書寫，比論：James Kelman ê How late it was, how late內底大量使用英語ê "fuck"等等ê tshoh-kàn-kiāu iah歹聽話，koh加上對英語語詞kap文法ê扭曲，來達成反殖民、對殖民者kap殖民語抗議ê目的。
換1句話講：國外ê後殖民作家khah濟是the̍h「殖民語」來ka蹧躂、ka變形、ka侮辱，用殖民語來tshoh-kàn-kiāu、來講歹聽話，thang損蕩殖民ê語言頂ē位結構。
咱ê做法khah稀罕，tú-tú
kap人顛倒píng，咱是the̍h咱已經hō͘人蹧躂兼鄙相ê母語來做「F-word」ê後殖民抗議，若正式ê聲明kap立場表達，suah顛倒khah tsia̍p使用殖民者ê語言，寫kah suí-khuì koh tau-sau，án-ne ê做法，kám m̄是teh助贊現此時gōng大眾對殖民語kap母語1 ê kuân 1 ê低、水準無siâng ê錯誤印象？
Hō͘ ta̍k-ê參考。
2009/5/12 google 阿凱
Goa jin-ui che chiu-si "wordplay". bo-iau-kin.
- Ko-jin siu-iong, ti-hui bo-kang. Tai-chiong ma-si an-ni, su-iau e alleviation bo-kang.
- Han-ji "pun-toe" tioh bo kou-teng e thak-im. Kan-na hong-pian nia.
- Lan ai kau-iok lan e TOL m-thang choe lang e lou-chai. Kui kang kan-na e-hiau 請 謝謝 對不起, lan ma ai kau-iok beh an-choaN ma, an-choaN kiau khah sui-khui, khah sim-sek, ji-chhiaN lan ka-ki lang chiah khoaN u. In 中國甲獅 chit-pian , goa siuN hoan-tui-e eng-kai chiu-si lan kho-pi e colonized TOL. In TKL eng-kai si bo chun-bun tioh.
Khai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sêng-hiân"
To: "Tai-gu-bang" Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:23 PM Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Guá teh siūⁿ…tshin-tshiūⁿ tsit khuán sú-īng Tâi-gí ê hong-sik (īng pháiⁿ-thiaⁿ uē mā--lâng, 中國吃大便), kap tsin suî-ì ê bûn-jī sú-iōng (Huâ- gí Tâi-gí tho̍k-im thàu-lām tshìn-tshái sú-iōng), tuì Tâi-gí-bûn ūn- tōng, tāu-té sī hó iah-sī bái?
On 5月11日, 上午10時56分, Hak-khiam TiuN wrote:
甲jia Hoa-gi e hoat-im, 獅sai Tai-gi hoat-im koh ka pian-cho te 2 siaN.
Hak-khiam
2009/5/11 Sêng-hiân :
Guá tha̍k tsit 4 jī sī "tiong-kok kah sai", ì-sù khah sîng sī: "China and the lion"…
On 5月10日, 下午6時37分, "Lim "
wrote:
Chheh-phaiN7-a2 Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi.
Khai
----- Original Message ----- From: Abon Lais To: ; Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
abon ti 3teng-po
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
From: google 阿凱
Date: 2009-05-13 10:46:25
Thê-kiong 1 e pí-kàu:
"花田一路" si Che-ui boe siong ho e Mangkah. Tian-si-tai lian-siok kiok ma-si an-ni.
M-ku, chia e long si Keng-che Dominant, ideology ka-seng e chok-iong.
I-su si, Lan TOL i-sek lai, iah-si chiap-siu TG. M-koh, ti pah-koan tau-cheng lai-toe tu-liau siu tioh keng-che eng-hiong chi-goa, koh u Political i-goan e bun-toe. TOL siong-ho leng-kho lau-phau, na bo-hoat-tou ah, chiah e tek-ko tau chhai-to…
Khai
----- Original Message -----
From: Lau Seng-hian
To: 台語網
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 8:54 AM
Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
俊州：
真多謝！Tsit篇拄好thang提來參考，明仔載上課犯勢ē討論--tio̍h mā無的確。
有1件請教，香港話ê書寫mā無政府ê介入做規範（個人印象），m̄-koh in ê出版發展，suah tú-tú親像 Anderson 所舉歐洲ê例，是因為市場ê因素，出版商本身去做sio整會ê khang-khuè，也就是講：香港人無親像台灣人予華語文ê意識型態束縛，無親像台灣民間有hit種kā台語文當做華語次文類，無致重文字使用ê現象，tsit-ê後壁ê起致我真hòonn-hiân。
Sêng-hiân
2009/5/13 施俊州
前1 tsam-a寫1篇關係胡民祥e論文, 節錄ti e-bin. 內底有sio-khua-a khap tioh 1970年前後 台語片kap粤語片 ti 所謂 ''國片'' e ''競爭'' 之下 tsam-jian-a無kang e ''下場''(附件3-4頁,主要引學者e研究). 個人見解是: 天 kap承賢e見解long無錯. M-koh, 以Marx ''determine'' (決定) tsit-e術語kap連帶e理論內涵來看, 以電影產業來看, 1960s是關鍵期, 是政治(政府, 殖民)leh ''決定'', Ah tsit-ma(當代, 1970/80-2009)恐驚無完全是 ''經濟,'' koh-khah m是政治leh(直接) ''決定.'' 1970國民黨 ''拗''--過-來以後, 消費品味(tsate)kap意識形態e角色lu來lu '' tsiah-lat.'' 理路理清, 承賢以 ''資本主義'' 救台語文化e步數tsiah有效. 以上理論背景來ti Bourdieu e ''場域(field)''理論, i 並無放棄 Marx 經濟 ''決定論'' e思考模式, 只是ka 市場分koh-khah幼, 資本類型分koh-khah多元, 而且有實證研究做té-tì. Bong參考.
俊州
2009/5/12 Lau Seng-hian
Tsit半個月koh重讀Benedict Anderson ê Imagined
Communities，我心內慢慢á有1 ê想法，tsit-ê想法，kap
A天兄所分享ê代誌有tī-tāi。
是按怎香港有全香港話ê冊kap雜誌，結果tī台灣，台語文出版品suah真罕得看--kìnn？
翻頭看17-19世紀ê歷史，koh加上Anderson提出：「民族主義是印刷資本主義ê結果」ê主張，我雄雄致覺著：tse後壁lóng是資本主義teh做主。
香港話ê出版是按怎tī香港ē興？因為tī hia有tsit-ê市場，台灣話ê出版tī台灣是按怎一直做人tan袂tńg骨？因為無市場！
現此時1 ê有市場1ê無市場ê原因真複雜，he絕對m̄是有「自主意識」無「自主意識」就thang簡單pué會--ê，tak-ê會使想看覓（香港人ê獨立意識kám ē比台灣人khah強？騙鬼bē食水--koh！）koh，若tsit-ê考慮有理路，咱kám免sió想看beh按怎利用資本主義ê勢頭，思考咱ê策略？
2009/5/12 天
Ta̍kgê
hó:
Goá chitmá tńglâi toà tī Tâipak, ū tangsî'á chhutkhì goākháu oânná teh kā lâng kóng hōló'oē. Ū tangsî'á pa̍tlâng soah mn̄g goá, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng 'kokgí' bē?" Goá kóng: "Ēhiáu." In to̍h ìn kóng, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng hoâgí, lí ná bô kóng hoâgí?"
Chiah'ê lóng sī 40-60 hoè ê lâng teh mn̄g ánne, in mā sī kài gâu kóng hōló'oē ê lâng.
Goá chitmá khah bô 30, lâng kóng goá seⁿ chò káná m̄ chai lán Asià tó chi̍t kok ê hoanná.
Sī ánchoáⁿ pa̍t kok ê siàuliânlâng lâi Tâi'oân ài kóng hoâgí khah chūjiân.
Goá bô beh koh thiaⁿ lâng kóng he sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê. Suijiân he teksi̍t sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê, m̄ koh chitmá íkeng sī lán teh chū'ngó͘ lāisi̍tbîn ah.
Tī Hiongkáng, in chitmá ū sekchêng cha̍pchì 100 pha chū thâu kàu boé lóng ēng Kńgtang'oē teh siá ê. In hia ha̍k'hāu mā bô teh kà hit ê gígiân. Hiah'ê hiāntāi hoâgí lāibīn m̄ bat khoàⁿ tio̍h ê hànjī, he mā m̄ sī ha̍k'hāu teh kà ê, in hia soah ta̍kgê lóng ēhiáu.
Só͘'í lán TGB ê hiaⁿché ài hō͘siong biánlē, lán ài tī "bô èngkai kóng hōló'oē" ê to͘ha̍p lâi kóng hōló'oē, iûkî tùi lán khah siàuliân ê chit ûn lâi kóng, hoānsè khah khùnlân.
天
2009/5/12 Lim
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lim "
To: "台語網"
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 3:55 AM Subject: Re: [tgb] Re:
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
Seng-hian hiaN kap Kok-ui,
Seng-hian hiaN kong liau pi goa sou kong koh-khah chheng-chho. M-ku, Li kong lan kong "F-letter words" si "khah ke" e sia-hoe gi-gian. Ki-sit ti hian-chu-si e Tai-oan sia-hoe, u tioh e sou-chai, ia u m-tioh e
sou-chai. Tioh e sou-chai: Koan5 e sia-hoe gi-gian long kap cheng-hu kau-kiat. Lan Tai-gi eng-oan bo ki-hoe, sou-i pian-seng ke e gi-gian. M-tioh e sou-chai: gi-gian eng-kai boe in-ui i e chhou-oe, phaiN-thiaN oe khah choe, tioh si khak chhou, khah bo chui-chun e gi-gian. I-siong 2 hang long-si Political constructed e kiat-ko, ia chiu-si colonized e kiat-ko.Lan chin-chiaN ai chhoe ka-ki e chhut-lou. Lan TOL ai leng-goa kau-iok ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e oe, choe lan ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e kou. An-ni Lan chiah u hi-bang. Ah, Na-si beh kek hou-i Genteel, hypocrisy, Tong-choe si subliming, HE tioh chin-chiaN lu giam-tiong, chhiuN hia e eggheads in academic positions hia e castrated toa KS ah. Lan TOL kong he tioh-si boLP.
Eng-gi thong-ti koe e sou-chai, in hia e li-lun, goa siuN, ki-sit bo hia-nih ho thiaN. Lan chia ma u. Tai-oan e Hoa-gi, oan-choan sit-khi kng-chih, kap iN-tun im, kam beh kong-si pho-hoai Hoa-gi e hoat-im?? Lan Tai-gi e hoan2 infiltrate jip Hoa-gi, "pho-hoai" hoat-gi gi-hoat e ma-si u. M-ku, che eng-kai si gi-gian chiap-siok e chu-jian hian-siong, boe-tang kong si hoan-sit-bin, iah-si De-sit-bin. Ti Tai-oan, chin-choe lang long liah-chun ka-ki kong hoa-gi kong kah siah-siah kio, kam u hoan-kong Tai-liok ?? In hia e Eng-gi kam u hoan-kong Eng-kok? hou eng-kok lang long kong hit-khoan de-sit-bin e Eng-gi? Goa
siuN, chit e gi-te, iah su-iau chin ku chin ku kap khong-kan lai phoe-hoe.Khai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kei TADA" To: "台語網" Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 10:18 PM Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Tai-oan-lang chit pah-ni lai, iong Tai-gi lai tui-khong sit-bin-chia.
Koe-khi long thang hou Jit-pun keng-chhat thiaN Tai-gi thiaN-liau bu sa-sa."Tiong-kok chiah sai". Bat Tai-gi e lang chiah u hoat-tou chhio.
Tai-gi si Tai-oan lang pi-bit e ki-ho, u chit-e ke-tat, chin ho.Tiong-kok lang na bo liau-kai Tai-gi, eng-oan bo hoat-tou liau-kai
Tai-oan-lang.Chit-ku e-tang cho chhio-khoe, si in-ui Tai-oan-lang kam-kak Tiong-kok e
ap-pek.Na bo, Tai-oan lang ma bo su-iau kong in phaiN-oe.
Au-sit-bin e chok-ka iong sit-bin gi-gian si-m-si chhi-tiuN e koan-he?
ChhiuN Taioan u kui-e goan-chu-bin chok-ka, ki-pun-siong si iong
Tiong-kok-oe sia-chok. TADA2009/5/11 Lau Seng-hian :
Tsit學期讀後殖民理論，關係「語言使用」ê後殖民策略，有1項kap tse相關，就是「F-word」ê書寫，比論：James Kelman ê How late it was, how late內底大量使用英語ê "fuck"等等ê tshoh-kàn-kiāu iah歹聽話，koh加上對英語語詞kap文法ê扭曲，來達成反殖民、對殖民者kap殖民語抗議ê目的。 換1句話講：國外ê後殖民作家khah濟是the̍h「殖民語」來ka蹧躂、ka變形、ka侮辱，用殖民語來tshoh-kàn-kiāu、來講歹聽話，thang損蕩殖民ê語言頂ē位結構。 咱ê做法khah稀罕，tú-tú kap人顛倒píng，咱是the̍h咱已經hō͘人蹧躂兼鄙相ê母語來做「F-word」ê後殖民抗議，若正式ê聲明kap立場表達，suah顛倒khah tsia̍p使用殖民者ê語言，寫kah suí-khuì koh tau-sau，án-ne ê做法，kám m̄是teh助贊現此時gōng大眾對殖民語kap母語1 ê kuân 1 ê低、水準無siâng ê錯誤印象？Hō͘ ta̍k-ê參考。
2009/5/12 google 阿凱 > > Goa jin-ui che chiu-si "wordplay". bo-iau-kin. > 1. Ko-jin siu-iong, ti-hui bo-kang. Tai-chiong ma-si an-ni, su-iau e > alleviation bo-kang. > 2. Han-ji "pun-toe" tioh bo kou-teng e thak-im. Kan-na hong-pian nia. > 3. Lan ai kau-iok lan e TOL m-thang choe lang e lou-chai. Kui kang > kan-na > e-hiau 請 謝謝 對不起, lan ma ai kau-iok beh an-choaN ma, an-choaN kiau > khah > sui-khui, khah sim-sek, ji-chhiaN lan ka-ki lang chiah khoaN u. > In 中國甲獅 chit-pian , goa siuN hoan-tui-e eng-kai chiu-si lan kho-pi > e > colonized TOL. In TKL eng-kai si bo chun-bun tioh. > > > Khai > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sêng-hiân" > To: "Tai-gu-bang" > Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:23 PM > Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~ > > > > Guá teh siūⁿ...tshin-tshiūⁿ tsit khuán sú-īng Tâi-gí ê hong-sik (īng > pháiⁿ-thiaⁿ uē mā--lâng, 中國吃大便), kap tsin suî-ì ê bûn-jī sú-iōng > (Huâ- > gí Tâi-gí tho̍k-im thàu-lām tshìn-tshái sú-iōng), tuì Tâi-gí-bûn ūn- > tōng, tāu-té sī hó iah-sī bái? > > > > > On 5月11日, 上午10時56分, Hak-khiam TiuN wrote: >> >> 甲jia Hoa-gi e hoat-im, 獅sai Tai-gi hoat-im koh ka pian-cho te 2 >> siaN. >> >> Hak-khiam >> >> 2009/5/11 Sêng-hiân : >> >> >> >> > Guá tha̍k tsit 4 jī sī "tiong-kok kah sai", ì-sù khah sîng sī: >> > "China >> > and the lion"... >> >> > On 5月10日, 下午6時37分, "Lim " >> >
> wrote: >> Chheh-phaiN7-a2 >> Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi.Khai
Original Message ----- From: Abon Lais To: ;>> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM >> Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
abon ti 3teng-po
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
>>>
--
Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
--
Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
From: Lau Seng-hian
Date: 2009-05-13 11:12:40
Tse是我tsit-tsām-á teh想ê辦法之一：若beh開tsiok濟條細條ê錢去做無市場bē趁錢ê khang-khuè，較輸做包giap：tī ē趁錢koh有市場ê物件內底，去強制加入tsi̍t-kuá人khah無愛，m̄-koh有mā bē去礙著in beh交關ê物件。
比論：集中資金去bàu 1 齣ē大銷ê banggah iah電影，提著代理權了後，除了一般ê行銷手路bē-sái輸--人以外，咱thang 硬ka加入運動ê要素，比論tī契約內底加1項：「一定ài hē台文字幕」(等等)，tsit種親像Microsoft ê商業手路，ē去教育消費者，mā ē產生市場ê慣勢，造成資本再生產ê效果。
Ē趁錢ê物tsiah做ē久長，有才調愈做愈大，mā tsiah是ē對大眾產生影響，帶動文化資本再生產ê辦法。
2009/5/13 google 阿凱
Thê-kiong 1 e pí-kàu:
"花田一路" si Che-ui boe siong ho e Mangkah. Tian-si-tai lian-siok kiok ma-si an-ni.
M-ku, chia e long si Keng-che Dominant, ideology ka-seng e chok-iong.
I-su si, Lan TOL i-sek lai, iah-si chiap-siu TG. M-koh, ti pah-koan tau-cheng lai-toe tu-liau siu tioh keng-che eng-hiong chi-goa, koh u Political i-goan e bun-toe. TOL siong-ho leng-kho lau-phau, na bo-hoat-tou ah, chiah e tek-ko tau chhai-to…
Khai
----- Original Message -----
From: Lau Seng-hian
To: 台語網
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 8:54 AM
Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
俊州：
真多謝！Tsit篇拄好thang提來參考，明仔載上課犯勢ē討論--tio̍h mā無的確。
有1件請教，香港話ê書寫mā無政府ê介入做規範（個人印象），m̄-koh in ê出版發展，suah tú-tú親像 Anderson 所舉歐洲ê例，是因為市場ê因素，出版商本身去做sio整會ê khang-khuè，也就是講：香港人無親像台灣人予華語文ê意識型態束縛，無親像台灣民間有hit種kā台語文當做華語次文類，無致重文字使用ê現象，tsit-ê後壁ê起致我真hòonn-hiân。
Sêng-hiân
2009/5/13 施俊州
前1 tsam-a寫1篇關係胡民祥e論文, 節錄ti e-bin. 內底有sio-khua-a khap tioh 1970年前後 台語片kap粤語片 ti 所謂 ''國片'' e ''競爭'' 之下 tsam-jian-a無kang e ''下場''(附件3-4頁,主要引學者e研究). 個人見解是: 天 kap承賢e見解long無錯. M-koh, 以Marx ''determine'' (決定) tsit-e術語kap連帶e理論內涵來看, 以電影產業來看, 1960s是關鍵期, 是政治(政府, 殖民)leh ''決定'', Ah tsit-ma(當代, 1970/80-2009)恐驚無完全是 ''經濟,'' koh-khah m是政治leh(直接) ''決定.'' 1970國民黨 ''拗''--過-來以後, 消費品味(tsate)kap意識形態e角色lu來lu '' tsiah-lat.'' 理路理清, 承賢以 ''資本主義'' 救台語文化e步數tsiah有效. 以上理論背景來ti Bourdieu e ''場域(field)''理論, i 並無放棄 Marx 經濟 ''決定論'' e思考模式, 只是ka 市場分koh-khah幼, 資本類型分koh-khah多元, 而且有實證研究做té-tì. Bong參考.
俊州
2009/5/12 Lau Seng-hian
Tsit半個月koh重讀Benedict Anderson ê Imagined
Communities，我心內慢慢á有1 ê想法，tsit-ê想法，kap
A天兄所分享ê代誌有tī-tāi。
是按怎香港有全香港話ê冊kap雜誌，結果tī台灣，台語文出版品suah真罕得看--kìnn？
翻頭看17-19世紀ê歷史，koh加上Anderson提出：「民族主義是印刷資本主義ê結果」ê主張，我雄雄致覺著：tse後壁lóng是資本主義teh做主。
香港話ê出版是按怎tī香港ē興？因為tī hia有tsit-ê市場，台灣話ê出版tī台灣是按怎一直做人tan袂tńg骨？因為無市場！
現此時1 ê有市場1ê無市場ê原因真複雜，he絕對m̄是有「自主意識」無「自主意識」就thang簡單pué會--ê，tak-ê會使想看覓（香港人ê獨立意識kám ē比台灣人khah強？騙鬼bē食水--koh！）koh，若tsit-ê考慮有理路，咱kám免sió想看beh按怎利用資本主義ê勢頭，思考咱ê策略？
2009/5/12 天
Ta̍kgê
hó:
Goá chitmá tńglâi toà tī Tâipak, ū tangsî'á chhutkhì goākháu oânná teh kā lâng kóng hōló'oē. Ū tangsî'á pa̍tlâng soah mn̄g goá, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng 'kokgí' bē?" Goá kóng: "Ēhiáu." In to̍h ìn kóng, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng hoâgí, lí ná bô kóng hoâgí?"
Chiah'ê lóng sī 40-60 hoè ê lâng teh mn̄g ánne, in mā sī kài gâu kóng hōló'oē ê lâng.
Goá chitmá khah bô 30, lâng kóng goá seⁿ chò káná m̄ chai lán Asià tó chi̍t kok ê hoanná.
Sī ánchoáⁿ pa̍t kok ê siàuliânlâng lâi Tâi'oân ài kóng hoâgí khah chūjiân.
Goá bô beh koh thiaⁿ lâng kóng he sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê. Suijiân he teksi̍t sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê, m̄ koh chitmá íkeng sī lán teh chū'ngó͘ lāisi̍tbîn ah.
Tī Hiongkáng, in chitmá ū sekchêng cha̍pchì 100 pha chū thâu kàu boé lóng ēng Kńgtang'oē teh siá ê. In hia ha̍k'hāu mā bô teh kà hit ê gígiân. Hiah'ê hiāntāi hoâgí lāibīn m̄ bat khoàⁿ tio̍h ê hànjī, he mā m̄ sī ha̍k'hāu teh kà ê, in hia soah ta̍kgê lóng ēhiáu.
Só͘'í lán TGB ê hiaⁿché ài hō͘siong biánlē, lán ài tī "bô èngkai kóng hōló'oē" ê to͘ha̍p lâi kóng hōló'oē, iûkî tùi lán khah siàuliân ê chit ûn lâi kóng, hoānsè khah khùnlân.
天
2009/5/12 Lim
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lim "
To: "台語網"
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 3:55 AM Subject: Re: [tgb] Re:
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
Seng-hian hiaN kap Kok-ui,
Seng-hian hiaN kong liau pi goa sou kong koh-khah chheng-chho. M-ku, Li kong lan kong "F-letter words" si "khah ke" e sia-hoe gi-gian. Ki-sit ti hian-chu-si e Tai-oan sia-hoe, u tioh e sou-chai, ia u m-tioh e
sou-chai. Tioh e sou-chai: Koan5 e sia-hoe gi-gian long kap cheng-hu kau-kiat. Lan Tai-gi eng-oan bo ki-hoe, sou-i pian-seng ke e gi-gian. M-tioh e sou-chai: gi-gian eng-kai boe in-ui i e chhou-oe, phaiN-thiaN oe khah choe, tioh si khak chhou, khah bo chui-chun e gi-gian. I-siong 2 hang long-si Political constructed e kiat-ko, ia chiu-si colonized e kiat-ko.Lan chin-chiaN ai chhoe ka-ki e chhut-lou. Lan TOL ai leng-goa kau-iok ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e oe, choe lan ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e kou. An-ni Lan chiah u hi-bang. Ah, Na-si beh kek hou-i Genteel, hypocrisy, Tong-choe si subliming, HE tioh chin-chiaN lu giam-tiong, chhiuN hia e eggheads in academic positions hia e castrated toa KS ah. Lan TOL kong he tioh-si boLP.
Eng-gi thong-ti koe e sou-chai, in hia e li-lun, goa siuN, ki-sit bo hia-nih ho thiaN. Lan chia ma u. Tai-oan e Hoa-gi, oan-choan sit-khi kng-chih, kap iN-tun im, kam beh kong-si pho-hoai Hoa-gi e hoat-im?? Lan Tai-gi e hoan2 infiltrate jip Hoa-gi, "pho-hoai" hoat-gi gi-hoat e ma-si u. M-ku, che eng-kai si gi-gian chiap-siok e chu-jian hian-siong, boe-tang kong si hoan-sit-bin, iah-si De-sit-bin. Ti Tai-oan, chin-choe lang long liah-chun ka-ki kong hoa-gi kong kah siah-siah kio, kam u hoan-kong Tai-liok ?? In hia e Eng-gi kam u hoan-kong Eng-kok? hou eng-kok lang long kong hit-khoan de-sit-bin e Eng-gi? Goa
siuN, chit e gi-te, iah su-iau chin ku chin ku kap khong-kan lai phoe-hoe.Khai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kei TADA" To: "台語網"
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 10:18 PM Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Tai-oan-lang chit pah-ni lai, iong Tai-gi lai tui-khong sit-bin-chia.
Koe-khi long thang hou Jit-pun keng-chhat thiaN Tai-gi thiaN-liau bu sa-sa."Tiong-kok chiah sai". Bat Tai-gi e lang chiah u hoat-tou chhio.
Tai-gi si Tai-oan lang pi-bit e ki-ho, u chit-e ke-tat, chin ho.Tiong-kok lang na bo liau-kai Tai-gi, eng-oan bo hoat-tou liau-kai
Tai-oan-lang.Chit-ku e-tang cho chhio-khoe, si in-ui Tai-oan-lang kam-kak Tiong-kok e
ap-pek.Na bo, Tai-oan lang ma bo su-iau kong in phaiN-oe.
Au-sit-bin e chok-ka iong sit-bin gi-gian si-m-si chhi-tiuN e koan-he?
ChhiuN Taioan u kui-e goan-chu-bin chok-ka, ki-pun-siong si iong
Tiong-kok-oe sia-chok. TADA2009/5/11 Lau Seng-hian :
Tsit學期讀後殖民理論，關係「語言使用」ê後殖民策略，有1項kap tse相關，就是「F-word」ê書寫，比論：James Kelman ê How late it was, how late內底大量使用英語ê "fuck"等等ê tshoh-kàn-kiāu iah歹聽話，koh加上對英語語詞kap文法ê扭曲，來達成反殖民、對殖民者kap殖民語抗議ê目的。 換1句話講：國外ê後殖民作家khah濟是the̍h「殖民語」來ka蹧躂、ka變形、ka侮辱，用殖民語來tshoh-kàn-kiāu、來講歹聽話，thang損蕩殖民ê語言頂ē位結構。 咱ê做法khah稀罕，tú-tú kap人顛倒píng，咱是the̍h咱已經hō͘人蹧躂兼鄙相ê母語來做「F-word」ê後殖民抗議，若正式ê聲明kap立場表達，suah顛倒khah tsia̍p使用殖民者ê語言，寫kah suí-khuì koh tau-sau，án-ne ê做法，kám m̄是teh助贊現此時gōng大眾對殖民語kap母語1 ê kuân 1 ê低、水準無siâng ê錯誤印象？Hō͘ ta̍k-ê參考。
2009/5/12 google 阿凱 > > Goa jin-ui che chiu-si "wordplay". bo-iau-kin. > 1. Ko-jin siu-iong, ti-hui bo-kang. Tai-chiong ma-si an-ni, su-iau e > alleviation bo-kang. > 2. Han-ji "pun-toe" tioh bo kou-teng e thak-im. Kan-na hong-pian nia. > 3. Lan ai kau-iok lan e TOL m-thang choe lang e lou-chai. Kui kang > kan-na > e-hiau 請 謝謝 對不起, lan ma ai kau-iok beh an-choaN ma, an-choaN kiau > khah > sui-khui, khah sim-sek, ji-chhiaN lan ka-ki lang chiah khoaN u. > In 中國甲獅 chit-pian , goa siuN hoan-tui-e eng-kai chiu-si lan kho-pi > e > colonized TOL. In TKL eng-kai si bo chun-bun tioh. > > > Khai > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sêng-hiân" > To: "Tai-gu-bang" > Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:23 PM > Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~ > > > > Guá teh siūⁿ...tshin-tshiūⁿ tsit khuán sú-īng Tâi-gí ê hong-sik (īng > pháiⁿ-thiaⁿ uē mā--lâng, 中國吃大便), kap tsin suî-ì ê bûn-jī sú-iōng > (Huâ- > gí Tâi-gí tho̍k-im thàu-lām tshìn-tshái sú-iōng), tuì Tâi-gí-bûn ūn- > tōng, tāu-té sī hó iah-sī bái? > > > > > On 5月11日, 上午10時56分, Hak-khiam TiuN wrote: >> >> 甲jia Hoa-gi e hoat-im, 獅sai Tai-gi hoat-im koh ka pian-cho te 2 >> siaN. >> >> Hak-khiam >> >> 2009/5/11 Sêng-hiân : >> >> >> >> > Guá tha̍k tsit 4 jī sī "tiong-kok kah sai", ì-sù khah sîng sī: >> > "China >> > and the lion"... >> >> > On 5月10日, 下午6時37分, "Lim " >> >
> wrote: >> Chheh-phaiN7-a2 >> Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi.Khai
Original Message ----- From: Abon Lais To: ;
>> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM >> Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
abon ti 3teng-po
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
>>>
--
Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
--
Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
From: google 阿凱
Date: 2009-05-13 13:17:24
Goa chi'n u liah koa chhut-mia e tian-iaN, Ka ji-bou kai-sia Tai-gi,
Chin chhu-bi, ma chin-thiam(Tai-gi e hak-seng bo siuN beh choe)
Khai
----- Original Message -----
From: Lau Seng-hian
To: 台語網
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:12 AM
Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
Tse是我tsit-tsām-á teh想ê辦法之一：若beh開tsiok濟條細條ê錢去做無市場bē趁錢ê khang-khuè，較輸做包giap：tī ē趁錢koh有市場ê物件內底，去強制加入tsi̍t-kuá人khah無愛，m̄-koh有mā bē去礙著in beh交關ê物件。
比論：集中資金去bàu 1 齣ē大銷ê banggah iah電影，提著代理權了後，除了一般ê行銷手路bē-sái輸--人以外，咱thang 硬ka加入運動ê要素，比論tī契約內底加1項：「一定ài hē台文字幕」(等等)，tsit種親像Microsoft ê商業手路，ē去教育消費者，mā ē產生市場ê慣勢，造成資本再生產ê效果。
Ē趁錢ê物tsiah做ē久長，有才調愈做愈大，mā tsiah是ē對大眾產生影響，帶動文化資本再生產ê辦法。
2009/5/13 google 阿凱
Thê-kiong 1 e pí-kàu:
"花田一路" si Che-ui boe
siong ho e Mangkah. Tian-si-tai lian-siok kiok ma-si
an-ni.
M-ku, chia e long si Keng-che
Dominant, ideology ka-seng e chok-iong.
I-su si, Lan TOL i-sek lai, iah-si
chiap-siu TG. M-koh, ti pah-koan tau-cheng lai-toe tu-liau siu tioh keng-che
eng-hiong chi-goa, koh u Political i-goan e bun-toe. TOL siong-ho leng-kho
lau-phau, na bo-hoat-tou ah, chiah e tek-ko tau chhai-to...
Khai
----- Original Message -----
**From:**
Lau Seng-hian
**To:** 台語網
**Sent:** Wednesday, May 13, 2009 8:54 AM
**Subject:** [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a
~~~
俊州：
真多謝！Tsit篇拄好thang提來參考，明仔載上課犯勢ē討論--tio̍h mā無的確。
有1件請教，香港話ê書寫mā無政府ê介入做規範（個人印象），m̄-koh in ê出版發展，suah tú-tú親像 Anderson 所舉歐洲ê例，是因為市場ê因素，出版商本身去做sio整會ê khang-khuè，也就是講：香港人無親像台灣人予華語文ê意識型態束縛，無親像台灣民間有hit種kā台語文當做華語次文類，無致重文字使用ê現象，tsit-ê後壁ê起致我真hòonn-hiân。
Sêng-hiân
2009/5/13 施俊州
前1 tsam-a寫1篇關係胡民祥e論文, 節錄ti e-bin. 內底有sio-khua-a khap tioh
1970年前後 台語片kap粤語片 ti 所謂 ''國片'' e ''競爭'' 之下 tsam-jian-a無kang e
''下場''(附件3-4頁,主要引學者e研究). 個人見解是: 天 kap承賢e見解long無錯. M-koh, 以Marx
''determine'' (決定) tsit-e術語kap連帶e理論內涵來看, 以電影產業來看, 1960s是關鍵期, 是政治(政府,
殖民)leh ''決定'', Ah tsit-ma(當代, 1970/80-2009)恐驚無完全是 ''經濟,'' koh-khah
m是政治leh(直接) ''決定.'' 1970國民黨
''拗''--過-來以後, 消費品味(tsate)kap意識形態e角色lu來lu ''
tsiah-lat.'' 理路理清, 承賢以 ''資本主義'' 救台語文化e步數tsiah有效. 以上理論背景來ti Bourdieu e ''場域(field)''理論, i 並無放棄
Marx 經濟 ''決定論'' e思考模式, 只是ka 市場分koh-khah幼, 資本類型分koh-khah多元, 而且有實證研究做té-tì. Bong參考.
俊州
2009/5/12 Lau Seng-hian
Tsit半個月koh重讀Benedict Anderson ê Imagined
Communities，我心內慢慢á有1 ê想法，tsit-ê想法，kap
A天兄所分享ê代誌有tī-tāi。
是按怎香港有全香港話ê冊kap雜誌，結果tī台灣，台語文出版品suah真罕得看--kìnn？
翻頭看17-19世紀ê歷史，koh加上Anderson提出：「民族主義是印刷資本主義ê結果」ê主張，我雄雄致覺著：tse後壁lóng是資本主義teh做主。
香港話ê出版是按怎tī香港ē興？因為tī hia有tsit-ê市場，台灣話ê出版tī台灣是按怎一直做人tan袂tńg骨？因為無市場！
現此時1 ê有市場1ê無市場ê原因真複雜，he絕對m̄是有「自主意識」無「自主意識」就thang簡單pué會--ê，tak-ê會使想看覓（香港人ê獨立意識kám ē比台灣人khah強？騙鬼bē食水--koh！）koh，若tsit-ê考慮有理路，咱kám免sió想看beh按怎利用資本主義ê勢頭，思考咱ê策略？
2009/5/12 天
Ta̍kgê
hó:
Goá chitmá tńglâi toà tī Tâipak, ū tangsî'á chhutkhì goākháu oânná teh kā lâng kóng hōló'oē. Ū tangsî'á pa̍tlâng soah mn̄g goá, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng 'kokgí' bē?" Goá kóng: "Ēhiáu." In to̍h ìn kóng, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng hoâgí, lí ná bô kóng hoâgí?"
Chiah'ê lóng sī 40-60 hoè ê lâng teh mn̄g ánne, in mā sī kài gâu kóng hōló'oē ê lâng.
Goá chitmá khah bô 30, lâng kóng goá seⁿ chò káná m̄ chai lán Asià tó chi̍t kok ê hoanná.
Sī ánchoáⁿ pa̍t kok ê siàuliânlâng lâi Tâi'oân ài kóng hoâgí khah chūjiân.
Goá bô beh koh thiaⁿ lâng kóng he sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê. Suijiân he teksi̍t sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê, m̄ koh chitmá íkeng sī lán teh chū'ngó͘ lāisi̍tbîn ah.
Tī Hiongkáng, in chitmá ū sekchêng cha̍pchì 100 pha chū thâu kàu boé lóng ēng Kńgtang'oē teh siá ê. In hia ha̍k'hāu mā bô teh kà hit ê gígiân. Hiah'ê hiāntāi hoâgí lāibīn m̄ bat khoàⁿ tio̍h ê hànjī, he mā m̄ sī ha̍k'hāu teh kà ê, in hia soah ta̍kgê lóng ēhiáu.
Só͘'í lán TGB ê hiaⁿché ài hō͘siong biánlē, lán ài tī "bô èngkai kóng hōló'oē" ê to͘ha̍p lâi kóng hōló'oē, iûkî tùi lán khah siàuliân ê chit ûn lâi kóng, hoānsè khah khùnlân.
天
2009/5/12 Lim
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lim "
To: "台語網"
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 3:55 AM Subject: Re: [tgb] Re:
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
Seng-hian hiaN kap Kok-ui,
Seng-hian hiaN kong liau pi goa sou kong koh-khah chheng-chho. M-ku, Li kong lan kong "F-letter words" si "khah ke" e sia-hoe gi-gian. Ki-sit ti hian-chu-si e Tai-oan sia-hoe, u tioh e sou-chai, ia u m-tioh e sou-chai. Tioh e sou-chai: Koan5 e sia-hoe gi-gian long kap cheng-hu kau-kiat. Lan Tai-gi eng-oan bo ki-hoe, sou-i pian-seng ke e gi-gian. M-tioh e sou-chai: gi-gian eng-kai boe in-ui i e chhou-oe, phaiN-thiaN oe khah choe, tioh si khak chhou, khah bo chui-chun e gi-gian. I-siong 2 hang long-si Political constructed e kiat-ko, ia chiu-si colonized e kiat-ko.
Lan chin-chiaN ai chhoe ka-ki e chhut-lou. Lan TOL ai leng-goa kau-iok ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e oe, choe lan ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e kou. An-ni Lan chiah u hi-bang. Ah, Na-si beh kek hou-i Genteel, hypocrisy, Tong-choe si subliming, HE tioh chin-chiaN lu giam-tiong, chhiuN hia e eggheads in academic positions hia e castrated toa KS ah. Lan TOL kong he tioh-si boLP.Eng-gi thong-ti koe e sou-chai, in hia e li-lun, goa siuN, ki-sit bo hia-nih ho thiaN. Lan chia ma u. Tai-oan e Hoa-gi, oan-choan sit-khi kng-chih, kap iN-tun im, kam beh kong-si pho-hoai Hoa-gi e hoat-im?? Lan Tai-gi e hoan2 infiltrate jip Hoa-gi, "pho-hoai" hoat-gi gi-hoat e ma-si u. M-ku, che eng-kai si gi-gian chiap-siok e chu-jian hian-siong, boe-tang kong si hoan-sit-bin, iah-si De-sit-bin. Ti Tai-oan, chin-choe lang long liah-chun ka-ki kong hoa-gi kong kah siah-siah kio, kam u hoan-kong Tai-liok ?? In hia e Eng-gi kam u hoan-kong Eng-kok? hou eng-kok lang long kong hit-khoan de-sit-bin e Eng-gi? Goa siuN, chit e gi-te, iah su-iau chin ku chin ku kap khong-kan lai phoe-hoe.
Khai
Original Message ----- From: "Kei TADA" To: "台語網" Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 10:18 PM Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~Tai-oan-lang chit pah-ni lai, iong Tai-gi lai tui-khong sit-bin-chia.Koe-khi long thang hou Jit-pun keng-chhat thiaN Tai-gi thiaN-liau bu
sa-sa."Tiong-kok chiah sai". Bat Tai-gi e lang chiah u hoat-tou chhio.
Tai-gi si Tai-oan lang pi-bit e ki-ho, u chit-e ke-tat, chin ho.
Tiong-kok lang na bo liau-kai Tai-gi, eng-oan bo hoat-tou liau-kai
Tai-oan-lang.Chit-ku e-tang cho chhio-khoe, si in-ui Tai-oan-lang kam-kak Tiong-kok e
ap-pek.Na bo, Tai-oan lang ma bo su-iau kong in phaiN-oe.
Au-sit-bin e chok-ka iong sit-bin gi-gian si-m-si chhi-tiuN e koan-he?
ChhiuN Taioan u kui-e goan-chu-bin chok-ka, ki-pun-siong si iong
Tiong-kok-oe sia-chok. TADA2009/5/11 Lau Seng-hian :
Tsit學期讀後殖民理論，關係「語言使用」ê後殖民策略，有1項kap tse相關，就是「F-word」ê書寫，比論：James Kelman ê How late it was, how late內底大量使用英語ê "fuck"等等ê tshoh-kàn-kiāu iah歹聽話，koh加上對英語語詞kap文法ê扭曲，來達成反殖民、對殖民者kap殖民語抗議ê目的。 換1句話講：國外ê後殖民作家khah濟是the̍h「殖民語」來ka蹧躂、ka變形、ka侮辱，用殖民語來tshoh-kàn-kiāu、來講歹聽話，thang損蕩殖民ê語言頂ē位結構。 咱ê做法khah稀罕，tú-tú kap人顛倒píng，咱是the̍h咱已經hō͘人蹧躂兼鄙相ê母語來做「F-word」ê後殖民抗議，若正式ê聲明kap立場表達，suah顛倒khah tsia̍p使用殖民者ê語言，寫kah suí-khuì koh tau-sau，án-ne ê做法，kám m̄是teh助贊現此時gōng大眾對殖民語kap母語1 ê kuân 1 ê低、水準無siâng ê錯誤印象？Hō͘ ta̍k-ê參考。
2009/5/12 google 阿凱 > > Goa jin-ui che chiu-si "wordplay". bo-iau-kin. > 1. Ko-jin siu-iong, ti-hui bo-kang. Tai-chiong ma-si an-ni, su-iau e > alleviation bo-kang. > 2. Han-ji "pun-toe" tioh bo kou-teng e thak-im. Kan-na hong-pian nia. > 3. Lan ai kau-iok lan e TOL m-thang choe lang e lou-chai. Kui kang > kan-na > e-hiau 請 謝謝 對不起, lan ma ai kau-iok beh an-choaN ma, an-choaN kiau > khah > sui-khui, khah sim-sek, ji-chhiaN lan ka-ki lang chiah khoaN u. > In 中國甲獅 chit-pian , goa siuN hoan-tui-e eng-kai chiu-si lan kho-pi > e > colonized TOL. In TKL eng-kai si bo chun-bun tioh. > > > Khai > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sêng-hiân" > To: "Tai-gu-bang" > Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:23 PM > Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~ > > > > Guá teh siūⁿ...tshin-tshiūⁿ tsit khuán sú-īng Tâi-gí ê hong-sik (īng > pháiⁿ-thiaⁿ uē mā--lâng, 中國吃大便), kap tsin suî-ì ê bûn-jī sú-iōng > (Huâ- > gí Tâi-gí tho̍k-im thàu-lām tshìn-tshái sú-iōng), tuì Tâi-gí-bûn ūn- > tōng, tāu-té sī hó iah-sī bái? > > > > > On 5月11日, 上午10時56分, Hak-khiam TiuN wrote: >> >> 甲jia Hoa-gi e hoat-im, 獅sai Tai-gi hoat-im koh ka pian-cho te 2 >> siaN. >> >> Hak-khiam >> >> 2009/5/11 Sêng-hiân : >> >> >> >> > Guá tha̍k tsit 4 jī sī "tiong-kok kah sai", ì-sù khah sîng sī: >> > "China >> > and the lion"... >> >> > On 5月10日, 下午6時37分, "Lim " >> >
> wrote: >> Chheh-phaiN7-a2 >> Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi.Khai----- Original Message ----- From: Abon Lais To: ;>> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM >> Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~abon ti 3teng-po
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
>>>
--
Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
--
Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
From: Lau Seng-hian
Date: 2009-05-13 13:28:34
A-khái 兄
問題是做好suah無法度公開去放送iah去賣錢，按呢真拍損。
我一直teh講錢，m̄是因為beh「趁錢」，是因為「ē趁錢」，就代表「受著濟濟人ê注目，ē愈phún愈大」，tse，kám m̄就是運動ê目的？
所以，tsit-ê代誌，向望ē有大頭家來起手，koh加上專業ê商業行銷手路。
Sêng-hiân
2009/5/13 google 阿凱
Goa chi'n u liah koa chhut-mia e tian-iaN, Ka ji-bou kai-sia Tai-gi,
Chin chhu-bi, ma chin-thiam(Tai-gi e hak-seng bo siuN beh choe)
Khai
----- Original Message -----
From: Lau Seng-hian
To: 台語網
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:12 AM
Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
Tse是我tsit-tsām-á teh想ê辦法之一：若beh開tsiok濟條細條ê錢去做無市場bē趁錢ê khang-khuè，較輸做包giap：tī ē趁錢koh有市場ê物件內底，去強制加入tsi̍t-kuá人khah無愛，m̄-koh有mā bē去礙著in beh交關ê物件。
比論：集中資金去bàu 1 齣ē大銷ê banggah iah電影，提著代理權了後，除了一般ê行銷手路bē-sái輸--人以外，咱thang 硬ka加入運動ê要素，比論tī契約內底加1項：「一定ài hē台文字幕」(等等)，tsit種親像Microsoft ê商業手路，ē去教育消費者，mā ē產生市場ê慣勢，造成資本再生產ê效果。
Ē趁錢ê物tsiah做ē久長，有才調愈做愈大，mā tsiah是ē對大眾產生影響，帶動文化資本再生產ê辦法。
2009/5/13 google 阿凱
Thê-kiong 1 e pí-kàu:
"花田一路" si Che-ui boe
siong ho e Mangkah. Tian-si-tai lian-siok kiok ma-si
an-ni.
M-ku, chia e long si Keng-che
Dominant, ideology ka-seng e chok-iong.
I-su si, Lan TOL i-sek lai, iah-si
chiap-siu TG. M-koh, ti pah-koan tau-cheng lai-toe tu-liau siu tioh keng-che
eng-hiong chi-goa, koh u Political i-goan e bun-toe. TOL siong-ho leng-kho
lau-phau, na bo-hoat-tou ah, chiah e tek-ko tau chhai-to...
Khai
----- Original Message -----
**From:**
Lau Seng-hian
**To:** 台語網
**Sent:** Wednesday, May 13, 2009 8:54 AM
**Subject:** [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a
~~~
俊州：
真多謝！Tsit篇拄好thang提來參考，明仔載上課犯勢ē討論--tio̍h mā無的確。
有1件請教，香港話ê書寫mā無政府ê介入做規範（個人印象），m̄-koh in ê出版發展，suah tú-tú親像 Anderson 所舉歐洲ê例，是因為市場ê因素，出版商本身去做sio整會ê khang-khuè，也就是講：香港人無親像台灣人予華語文ê意識型態束縛，無親像台灣民間有hit種kā台語文當做華語次文類，無致重文字使用ê現象，tsit-ê後壁ê起致我真hòonn-hiân。
Sêng-hiân
2009/5/13 施俊州
前1 tsam-a寫1篇關係胡民祥e論文, 節錄ti e-bin. 內底有sio-khua-a khap tioh
1970年前後 台語片kap粤語片 ti 所謂 ''國片'' e ''競爭'' 之下 tsam-jian-a無kang e
''下場''(附件3-4頁,主要引學者e研究). 個人見解是: 天 kap承賢e見解long無錯. M-koh, 以Marx
''determine'' (決定) tsit-e術語kap連帶e理論內涵來看, 以電影產業來看, 1960s是關鍵期, 是政治(政府,
殖民)leh ''決定'', Ah tsit-ma(當代, 1970/80-2009)恐驚無完全是 ''經濟,'' koh-khah
m是政治leh(直接) ''決定.'' 1970國民黨
''拗''--過-來以後, 消費品味(tsate)kap意識形態e角色lu來lu ''
tsiah-lat.'' 理路理清, 承賢以 ''資本主義'' 救台語文化e步數tsiah有效. 以上理論背景來ti Bourdieu e ''場域(field)''理論, i 並無放棄
Marx 經濟 ''決定論'' e思考模式, 只是ka 市場分koh-khah幼, 資本類型分koh-khah多元, 而且有實證研究做té-tì. Bong參考.
俊州
2009/5/12 Lau Seng-hian
Tsit半個月koh重讀Benedict Anderson ê Imagined
Communities，我心內慢慢á有1 ê想法，tsit-ê想法，kap
A天兄所分享ê代誌有tī-tāi。
是按怎香港有全香港話ê冊kap雜誌，結果tī台灣，台語文出版品suah真罕得看--kìnn？
翻頭看17-19世紀ê歷史，koh加上Anderson提出：「民族主義是印刷資本主義ê結果」ê主張，我雄雄致覺著：tse後壁lóng是資本主義teh做主。
香港話ê出版是按怎tī香港ē興？因為tī hia有tsit-ê市場，台灣話ê出版tī台灣是按怎一直做人tan袂tńg骨？因為無市場！
現此時1 ê有市場1ê無市場ê原因真複雜，he絕對m̄是有「自主意識」無「自主意識」就thang簡單pué會--ê，tak-ê會使想看覓（香港人ê獨立意識kám ē比台灣人khah強？騙鬼bē食水--koh！）koh，若tsit-ê考慮有理路，咱kám免sió想看beh按怎利用資本主義ê勢頭，思考咱ê策略？
2009/5/12 天
Ta̍kgê
hó:
Goá chitmá tńglâi toà tī Tâipak, ū tangsî'á chhutkhì goākháu oânná teh kā lâng kóng hōló'oē. Ū tangsî'á pa̍tlâng soah mn̄g goá, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng 'kokgí' bē?" Goá kóng: "Ēhiáu." In to̍h ìn kóng, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng hoâgí, lí ná bô kóng hoâgí?"
Chiah'ê lóng sī 40-60 hoè ê lâng teh mn̄g ánne, in mā sī kài gâu kóng hōló'oē ê lâng.
Goá chitmá khah bô 30, lâng kóng goá seⁿ chò káná m̄ chai lán Asià tó chi̍t kok ê hoanná.
Sī ánchoáⁿ pa̍t kok ê siàuliânlâng lâi Tâi'oân ài kóng hoâgí khah chūjiân.
Goá bô beh koh thiaⁿ lâng kóng he sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê. Suijiân he teksi̍t sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê, m̄ koh chitmá íkeng sī lán teh chū'ngó͘ lāisi̍tbîn ah.
Tī Hiongkáng, in chitmá ū sekchêng cha̍pchì 100 pha chū thâu kàu boé lóng ēng Kńgtang'oē teh siá ê. In hia ha̍k'hāu mā bô teh kà hit ê gígiân. Hiah'ê hiāntāi hoâgí lāibīn m̄ bat khoàⁿ tio̍h ê hànjī, he mā m̄ sī ha̍k'hāu teh kà ê, in hia soah ta̍kgê lóng ēhiáu.
Só͘'í lán TGB ê hiaⁿché ài hō͘siong biánlē, lán ài tī "bô èngkai kóng hōló'oē" ê to͘ha̍p lâi kóng hōló'oē, iûkî tùi lán khah siàuliân ê chit ûn lâi kóng, hoānsè khah khùnlân.
天
2009/5/12 Lim
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lim "
To: "台語網"
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 3:55 AM Subject: Re: [tgb] Re:
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
Seng-hian hiaN kap Kok-ui,
Seng-hian hiaN kong liau pi goa sou kong koh-khah chheng-chho. M-ku, Li kong lan kong "F-letter words" si "khah ke" e sia-hoe gi-gian. Ki-sit ti hian-chu-si e Tai-oan sia-hoe, u tioh e sou-chai, ia u m-tioh e sou-chai. Tioh e sou-chai: Koan5 e sia-hoe gi-gian long kap cheng-hu kau-kiat. Lan Tai-gi eng-oan bo ki-hoe, sou-i pian-seng ke e gi-gian. M-tioh e sou-chai: gi-gian eng-kai boe in-ui i e chhou-oe, phaiN-thiaN oe khah choe, tioh si khak chhou, khah bo chui-chun e gi-gian. I-siong 2 hang long-si Political constructed e kiat-ko, ia chiu-si colonized e kiat-ko.
Lan chin-chiaN ai chhoe ka-ki e chhut-lou. Lan TOL ai leng-goa kau-iok ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e oe, choe lan ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e kou. An-ni Lan chiah u hi-bang. Ah, Na-si beh kek hou-i Genteel, hypocrisy, Tong-choe si subliming, HE tioh chin-chiaN lu giam-tiong, chhiuN hia e eggheads in academic positions hia e castrated toa KS ah. Lan TOL kong he tioh-si boLP.Eng-gi thong-ti koe e sou-chai, in hia e li-lun, goa siuN, ki-sit bo hia-nih ho thiaN. Lan chia ma u. Tai-oan e Hoa-gi, oan-choan sit-khi kng-chih, kap iN-tun im, kam beh kong-si pho-hoai Hoa-gi e hoat-im?? Lan Tai-gi e hoan2 infiltrate jip Hoa-gi, "pho-hoai" hoat-gi gi-hoat e ma-si u. M-ku, che eng-kai si gi-gian chiap-siok e chu-jian hian-siong, boe-tang kong si hoan-sit-bin, iah-si De-sit-bin. Ti Tai-oan, chin-choe lang long liah-chun ka-ki kong hoa-gi kong kah siah-siah kio, kam u hoan-kong Tai-liok ?? In hia e Eng-gi kam u hoan-kong Eng-kok? hou eng-kok lang long kong hit-khoan de-sit-bin e Eng-gi? Goa siuN, chit e gi-te, iah su-iau chin ku chin ku kap khong-kan lai phoe-hoe.
Khai
Original Message ----- From: "Kei TADA" To: "台語網"
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 10:18 PM Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Tai-oan-lang chit pah-ni lai, iong Tai-gi lai tui-khong sit-bin-chia.Koe-khi long thang hou Jit-pun keng-chhat thiaN Tai-gi thiaN-liau bu
sa-sa."Tiong-kok chiah sai". Bat Tai-gi e lang chiah u hoat-tou chhio.
Tai-gi si Tai-oan lang pi-bit e ki-ho, u chit-e ke-tat, chin ho.
Tiong-kok lang na bo liau-kai Tai-gi, eng-oan bo hoat-tou liau-kai
Tai-oan-lang.Chit-ku e-tang cho chhio-khoe, si in-ui Tai-oan-lang kam-kak Tiong-kok e
ap-pek.Na bo, Tai-oan lang ma bo su-iau kong in phaiN-oe.
Au-sit-bin e chok-ka iong sit-bin gi-gian si-m-si chhi-tiuN e koan-he?
ChhiuN Taioan u kui-e goan-chu-bin chok-ka, ki-pun-siong si iong
Tiong-kok-oe sia-chok. TADA2009/5/11 Lau Seng-hian :
Tsit學期讀後殖民理論，關係「語言使用」ê後殖民策略，有1項kap tse相關，就是「F-word」ê書寫，比論：James Kelman ê How late it was, how late內底大量使用英語ê "fuck"等等ê tshoh-kàn-kiāu iah歹聽話，koh加上對英語語詞kap文法ê扭曲，來達成反殖民、對殖民者kap殖民語抗議ê目的。 換1句話講：國外ê後殖民作家khah濟是the̍h「殖民語」來ka蹧躂、ka變形、ka侮辱，用殖民語來tshoh-kàn-kiāu、來講歹聽話，thang損蕩殖民ê語言頂ē位結構。 咱ê做法khah稀罕，tú-tú kap人顛倒píng，咱是the̍h咱已經hō͘人蹧躂兼鄙相ê母語來做「F-word」ê後殖民抗議，若正式ê聲明kap立場表達，suah顛倒khah tsia̍p使用殖民者ê語言，寫kah suí-khuì koh tau-sau，án-ne ê做法，kám m̄是teh助贊現此時gōng大眾對殖民語kap母語1 ê kuân 1 ê低、水準無siâng ê錯誤印象？Hō͘ ta̍k-ê參考。
2009/5/12 google 阿凱 > > Goa jin-ui che chiu-si "wordplay". bo-iau-kin. > 1. Ko-jin siu-iong, ti-hui bo-kang. Tai-chiong ma-si an-ni, su-iau e > alleviation bo-kang. > 2. Han-ji "pun-toe" tioh bo kou-teng e thak-im. Kan-na hong-pian nia. > 3. Lan ai kau-iok lan e TOL m-thang choe lang e lou-chai. Kui kang > kan-na > e-hiau 請 謝謝 對不起, lan ma ai kau-iok beh an-choaN ma, an-choaN kiau > khah > sui-khui, khah sim-sek, ji-chhiaN lan ka-ki lang chiah khoaN u. > In 中國甲獅 chit-pian , goa siuN hoan-tui-e eng-kai chiu-si lan kho-pi > e > colonized TOL. In TKL eng-kai si bo chun-bun tioh. > > > Khai > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sêng-hiân" > To: "Tai-gu-bang" > Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:23 PM > Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~ > > > > Guá teh siūⁿ...tshin-tshiūⁿ tsit khuán sú-īng Tâi-gí ê hong-sik (īng > pháiⁿ-thiaⁿ uē mā--lâng, 中國吃大便), kap tsin suî-ì ê bûn-jī sú-iōng > (Huâ- > gí Tâi-gí tho̍k-im thàu-lām tshìn-tshái sú-iōng), tuì Tâi-gí-bûn ūn- > tōng, tāu-té sī hó iah-sī bái? > > > > > On 5月11日, 上午10時56分, Hak-khiam TiuN wrote: >> >> 甲jia Hoa-gi e hoat-im, 獅sai Tai-gi hoat-im koh ka pian-cho te 2 >> siaN. >> >> Hak-khiam >> >> 2009/5/11 Sêng-hiân : >> >> >> >> > Guá tha̍k tsit 4 jī sī "tiong-kok kah sai", ì-sù khah sîng sī: >> > "China >> > and the lion"... >> >> > On 5月10日, 下午6時37分, "Lim " >> >
> wrote: >> Chheh-phaiN7-a2 >> Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi.Khai----- Original Message ----- From: Abon Lais To: ;
>> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM >> Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~abon ti 3teng-po
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
>>>
--
Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
--
Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
From: google 阿凱
Date: 2009-05-13 14:02:23
Tioh-si ah!
He pan-koan e bun-toe ma-si Capitalism e san-but.
Chit-ma the-che pek lang tioh-ai chham u in e un-chok, Na-bo tioh e hong tong-choe hoan-lang.
Che kap 16 se-ki e siu-e e teng-gi( pau-koah bo-thau-lou-lang) kang-khoan.
Khai
----- Original Message -----
From: Lau Seng-hian
To: 台語網
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 1:28 PM
Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
A-khái 兄
問題是做好suah無法度公開去放送iah去賣錢，按呢真拍損。
我一直teh講錢，m̄是因為beh「趁錢」，是因為「ē趁錢」，就代表「受著濟濟人ê注目，ē愈phún愈大」，tse，kám m̄就是運動ê目的？
所以，tsit-ê代誌，向望ē有大頭家來起手，koh加上專業ê商業行銷手路。
Sêng-hiân
2009/5/13 google 阿凱
Goa chi'n u liah koa chhut-mia e
tian-iaN, Ka ji-bou kai-sia Tai-gi,
Chin chhu-bi, ma chin-thiam(Tai-gi e
hak-seng bo siuN beh choe)
Khai
----- Original Message -----
**From:**
Lau Seng-hian
**To:** 台語網
**Sent:** Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:12 AM
**Subject:** [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a
~~~
Tse是我tsit-tsām-á teh想ê辦法之一：若beh開tsiok濟條細條ê錢去做無市場bē趁錢ê khang-khuè，較輸做包giap：tī ē趁錢koh有市場ê物件內底，去強制加入tsi̍t-kuá人khah無愛，m̄-koh有mā bē去礙著in beh交關ê物件。
比論：集中資金去bàu 1 齣ē大銷ê banggah iah電影，提著代理權了後，除了一般ê行銷手路bē-sái輸--人以外，咱thang 硬ka加入運動ê要素，比論tī契約內底加1項：「一定ài hē台文字幕」(等等)，tsit種親像Microsoft ê商業手路，ē去教育消費者，mā ē產生市場ê慣勢，造成資本再生產ê效果。
Ē趁錢ê物tsiah做ē久長，有才調愈做愈大，mā tsiah是ē對大眾產生影響，帶動文化資本再生產ê辦法。
2009/5/13 google 阿凱
Thê-kiong 1 e
pí-kàu:
"花田一路" si Che-ui boe
siong ho e Mangkah. Tian-si-tai lian-siok kiok ma-si
an-ni.
M-ku, chia e long si Keng-che
Dominant, ideology ka-seng e chok-iong.
I-su si, Lan TOL i-sek lai,
iah-si chiap-siu TG. M-koh, ti pah-koan tau-cheng lai-toe tu-liau siu
tioh keng-che eng-hiong chi-goa, koh u Political i-goan e bun-toe. TOL
siong-ho leng-kho lau-phau, na bo-hoat-tou ah, chiah e tek-ko tau
chhai-to...
Khai
----- Original Message -----
**From:**
Lau Seng-hian
**To:** 台語網
**Sent:** Wednesday, May 13, 2009 8:54 AM
**Subject:** [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a
~~~
俊州：
真多謝！Tsit篇拄好thang提來參考，明仔載上課犯勢ē討論--tio̍h mā無的確。
有1件請教，香港話ê書寫mā無政府ê介入做規範（個人印象），m̄-koh in ê出版發展，suah tú-tú親像 Anderson 所舉歐洲ê例，是因為市場ê因素，出版商本身去做sio整會ê khang-khuè，也就是講：香港人無親像台灣人予華語文ê意識型態束縛，無親像台灣民間有hit種kā台語文當做華語次文類，無致重文字使用ê現象，tsit-ê後壁ê起致我真hòonn-hiân。
Sêng-hiân
2009/5/13 施俊州
前1 tsam-a寫1篇關係胡民祥e論文, 節錄ti e-bin. 內底有sio-khua-a khap tioh
1970年前後 台語片kap粤語片 ti 所謂 ''國片'' e ''競爭'' 之下 tsam-jian-a無kang e
''下場''(附件3-4頁,主要引學者e研究). 個人見解是: 天 kap承賢e見解long無錯. M-koh, 以Marx
''determine'' (決定) tsit-e術語kap連帶e理論內涵來看, 以電影產業來看, 1960s是關鍵期,
是政治(政府, 殖民)leh ''決定'', Ah tsit-ma(當代, 1970/80-2009)恐驚無完全是
''經濟,'' koh-khah m是政治leh(直接) ''決定.'' 1970國民黨 ''拗''--過-來以後, 消費品味(tsate)kap意識形態e角色lu來lu
'' tsiah-lat.'' 理路理清, 承賢以 ''資本主義''
救台語文化e步數tsiah有效. 以上理論背景來ti Bourdieu e
''場域(field)''理論, i 並無放棄 Marx 經濟 ''決定論'' e思考模式, 只是ka
市場分koh-khah幼, 資本類型分koh-khah多元, 而且有實證研究做té-tì.
Bong參考.
俊州
2009/5/12 Lau Seng-hian
Tsit半個月koh重讀Benedict Anderson ê Imagined
Communities，我心內慢慢á有1 ê想法，tsit-ê想法，kap
A天兄所分享ê代誌有tī-tāi。
是按怎香港有全香港話ê冊kap雜誌，結果tī台灣，台語文出版品suah真罕得看--kìnn？
翻頭看17-19世紀ê歷史，koh加上Anderson提出：「民族主義是印刷資本主義ê結果」ê主張，我雄雄致覺著：tse後壁lóng是資本主義teh做主。
香港話ê出版是按怎tī香港ē興？因為tī hia有tsit-ê市場，台灣話ê出版tī台灣是按怎一直做人tan袂tńg骨？因為無市場！
現此時1 ê有市場1ê無市場ê原因真複雜，he絕對m̄是有「自主意識」無「自主意識」就thang簡單pué會--ê，tak-ê會使想看覓（香港人ê獨立意識kám ē比台灣人khah強？騙鬼bē食水--koh！）koh，若tsit-ê考慮有理路，咱kám免sió想看beh按怎利用資本主義ê勢頭，思考咱ê策略？
2009/5/12 天
Ta̍kgê
hó:
Goá chitmá tńglâi toà tī Tâipak, ū tangsî'á chhutkhì goākháu oânná teh kā lâng kóng hōló'oē. Ū tangsî'á pa̍tlâng soah mn̄g goá, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng 'kokgí' bē?" Goá kóng: "Ēhiáu." In to̍h ìn kóng, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng hoâgí, lí ná bô kóng hoâgí?"
Chiah'ê lóng sī 40-60 hoè ê lâng teh mn̄g ánne, in mā sī kài gâu kóng hōló'oē ê lâng.
Goá chitmá khah bô 30, lâng kóng goá seⁿ chò káná m̄ chai lán Asià tó chi̍t kok ê hoanná.
Sī ánchoáⁿ pa̍t kok ê siàuliânlâng lâi Tâi'oân ài kóng hoâgí khah chūjiân.
Goá bô beh koh thiaⁿ lâng kóng he sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê. Suijiân he teksi̍t sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê, m̄ koh chitmá íkeng sī lán teh chū'ngó͘ lāisi̍tbîn ah.
Tī Hiongkáng, in chitmá ū sekchêng cha̍pchì 100 pha chū thâu kàu boé lóng ēng Kńgtang'oē teh siá ê. In hia ha̍k'hāu mā bô teh kà hit ê gígiân. Hiah'ê hiāntāi hoâgí lāibīn m̄ bat khoàⁿ tio̍h ê hànjī, he mā m̄ sī ha̍k'hāu teh kà ê, in hia soah ta̍kgê lóng ēhiáu.
Só͘'í lán TGB ê hiaⁿché ài hō͘siong biánlē, lán ài tī "bô èngkai kóng hōló'oē" ê to͘ha̍p lâi kóng hōló'oē, iûkî tùi lán khah siàuliân ê chit ûn lâi kóng, hoānsè khah khùnlân.
天
2009/5/12 Lim
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lim " To: "台語網"
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 3:55 AM Subject: Re: [tgb]
Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
Seng-hian hiaN kap Kok-ui,Seng-hian hiaN kong liau pi goa sou kong koh-khah chheng-chho. M-ku, Li kong lan kong "F-letter words" si "khah ke" e sia-hoe gi-gian. Ki-sit ti hian-chu-si e Tai-oan sia-hoe, u tioh e sou-chai, ia u m-tioh e sou-chai.
Tioh e sou-chai: Koan5 e sia-hoe gi-gian long kap cheng-hu kau-kiat. Lan Tai-gi eng-oan bo ki-hoe, sou-i pian-seng ke e gi-gian. M-tioh e sou-chai: gi-gian eng-kai boe in-ui i e chhou-oe, phaiN-thiaN oe khah choe, tioh si khak chhou, khah bo chui-chun e gi-gian. I-siong 2 hang long-si Political constructed e kiat-ko, ia chiu-si colonized e kiat-ko.Lan chin-chiaN ai chhoe ka-ki e chhut-lou. Lan TOL ai leng-goa kau-iok ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e oe, choe lan ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e kou. An-ni Lan chiah u hi-bang. Ah, Na-si beh kek hou-i Genteel, hypocrisy, Tong-choe si subliming, HE tioh chin-chiaN lu giam-tiong, chhiuN hia e eggheads in academic positions hia e castrated toa KS ah. Lan TOL kong he tioh-si boLP.
Eng-gi thong-ti koe e sou-chai, in hia e li-lun, goa siuN, ki-sit bo hia-nih ho thiaN. Lan chia ma u. Tai-oan e Hoa-gi, oan-choan sit-khi kng-chih, kap iN-tun im, kam beh kong-si pho-hoai Hoa-gi e hoat-im?? Lan Tai-gi e hoan2 infiltrate jip Hoa-gi, "pho-hoai" hoat-gi gi-hoat e ma-si u. M-ku, che eng-kai si gi-gian chiap-siok e chu-jian hian-siong, boe-tang kong si hoan-sit-bin, iah-si De-sit-bin. Ti Tai-oan, chin-choe lang long liah-chun ka-ki kong hoa-gi kong kah siah-siah kio, kam u hoan-kong Tai-liok ?? In hia e Eng-gi kam u hoan-kong
Eng-kok? hou eng-kok lang long kong hit-khoan de-sit-bin e Eng-gi? Goa siuN, chit e gi-te, iah su-iau chin ku chin ku kap khong-kan lai phoe-hoe.Khai
Original Message ----- From: "Kei TADA" To: "台語網"
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 10:18 PM Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Tai-oan-lang chit pah-ni lai, iong Tai-gi lai tui-khong sit-bin-chia.
Koe-khi long thang hou Jit-pun keng-chhat thiaN Tai-gi thiaN-liau bu
sa-sa."Tiong-kok chiah sai". Bat Tai-gi e lang chiah u hoat-tou chhio.
Tai-gi si Tai-oan lang pi-bit e ki-ho, u chit-e ke-tat, chin ho.Tiong-kok lang na bo liau-kai Tai-gi, eng-oan bo hoat-tou liau-kai
Tai-oan-lang.Chit-ku e-tang cho chhio-khoe, si in-ui Tai-oan-lang kam-kak Tiong-kok e ap-pek.
Na bo, Tai-oan lang ma bo su-iau kong in phaiN-oe.
Au-sit-bin e chok-ka iong sit-bin gi-gian si-m-si chhi-tiuN e koan-he?ChhiuN Taioan u kui-e goan-chu-bin chok-ka, ki-pun-siong si iong
Tiong-kok-oe sia-chok. TADA2009/5/11 Lau Seng-hian :
Tsit學期讀後殖民理論，關係「語言使用」ê後殖民策略，有1項kap tse相關，就是「F-word」ê書寫，比論：James Kelman ê How late it was, how late內底大量使用英語ê "fuck"等等ê tshoh-kàn-kiāu iah歹聽話，koh加上對英語語詞kap文法ê扭曲，來達成反殖民、對殖民者kap殖民語抗議ê目的。 換1句話講：國外ê後殖民作家khah濟是the̍h「殖民語」來ka蹧躂、ka變形、ka侮辱，用殖民語來tshoh-kàn-kiāu、來講歹聽話，thang損蕩殖民ê語言頂ē位結構。 咱ê做法khah稀罕，tú-tú kap人顛倒píng，咱是the̍h咱已經hō͘人蹧躂兼鄙相ê母語來做「F-word」ê後殖民抗議，若正式ê聲明kap立場表達，suah顛倒khah tsia̍p使用殖民者ê語言，寫kah suí-khuì koh tau-sau，án-ne ê做法，kám m̄是teh助贊現此時gōng大眾對殖民語kap母語1 ê kuân 1 ê低、水準無siâng ê錯誤印象？Hō͘ ta̍k-ê參考。
2009/5/12 google 阿凱 > > Goa jin-ui che chiu-si "wordplay". bo-iau-kin. > 1. Ko-jin siu-iong, ti-hui bo-kang. Tai-chiong ma-si an-ni, su-iau e > alleviation bo-kang. > 2. Han-ji "pun-toe" tioh bo kou-teng e thak-im. Kan-na hong-pian nia. > 3. Lan ai kau-iok lan e TOL m-thang choe lang e lou-chai. Kui kang > kan-na > e-hiau 請 謝謝 對不起, lan ma ai kau-iok beh an-choaN ma, an-choaN kiau > khah > sui-khui, khah sim-sek, ji-chhiaN lan ka-ki lang chiah khoaN u. > In 中國甲獅 chit-pian , goa siuN hoan-tui-e eng-kai chiu-si lan kho-pi > e > colonized TOL. In TKL eng-kai si bo chun-bun tioh. > > > Khai > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sêng-hiân" > To: "Tai-gu-bang" > Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:23 PM > Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~ > > > > Guá teh siūⁿ...tshin-tshiūⁿ tsit khuán sú-īng Tâi-gí ê hong-sik (īng > pháiⁿ-thiaⁿ uē mā--lâng, 中國吃大便), kap tsin suî-ì ê bûn-jī sú-iōng > (Huâ- > gí Tâi-gí tho̍k-im thàu-lām tshìn-tshái sú-iōng), tuì Tâi-gí-bûn ūn- > tōng, tāu-té sī hó iah-sī bái? > > > > > On 5月11日, 上午10時56分, Hak-khiam TiuN wrote: >> >> 甲jia Hoa-gi e hoat-im, 獅sai Tai-gi hoat-im koh ka pian-cho te 2 >> siaN. >> >> Hak-khiam >> >> 2009/5/11 Sêng-hiân : >> >> >> >> > Guá tha̍k tsit 4 jī sī "tiong-kok kah sai", ì-sù khah sîng sī: >> > "China >> > and the lion"... >> >> > On 5月10日, 下午6時37分, "Lim " >> > >> > wrote: >> >> Chheh-phaiN7-a2 >> >> Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi. >> >> >> Khai >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Abon Lais >> >> To: ; >> >> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM >> >> Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~ >> >> >> tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~ >> >> >> abon ti 3teng-po > > ～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～ >>>
--
Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
--
Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
--
Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
From: Lau Seng-hian
Date: 2009-05-13 14:12:06
Tse就是Marx講ê資本？「kan-taⁿ用來beh趁錢ê錢」所造成資本粒積ê結果。
雖bóng真bô-tā-uâ，m̄-koh mā m̄是全無機會，原底無錢無勢ê魏德聖ē-tàng刣1條路--出-來，咱bat台語文ê頭家人kám攏無才調？
2009/5/13 google 阿凱
Tioh-si ah!
He pan-koan e bun-toe ma-si Capitalism e san-but.
Chit-ma the-che pek lang tioh-ai chham u in e un-chok, Na-bo tioh e hong tong-choe hoan-lang.
Che kap 16 se-ki e siu-e e teng-gi( pau-koah bo-thau-lou-lang) kang-khoan.
Khai
----- Original Message -----
From: Lau Seng-hian
To: 台語網
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 1:28 PM
Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
A-khái 兄
問題是做好suah無法度公開去放送iah去賣錢，按呢真拍損。
我一直teh講錢，m̄是因為beh「趁錢」，是因為「ē趁錢」，就代表「受著濟濟人ê注目，ē愈phún愈大」，tse，kám m̄就是運動ê目的？
所以，tsit-ê代誌，向望ē有大頭家來起手，koh加上專業ê商業行銷手路。
Sêng-hiân
2009/5/13 google 阿凱
Goa chi'n u liah koa chhut-mia e
tian-iaN, Ka ji-bou kai-sia Tai-gi,
Chin chhu-bi, ma chin-thiam(Tai-gi e
hak-seng bo siuN beh choe)
Khai
----- Original Message -----
**From:**
Lau Seng-hian
**To:** 台語網
**Sent:** Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:12 AM
**Subject:** [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a
~~~
Tse是我tsit-tsām-á teh想ê辦法之一：若beh開tsiok濟條細條ê錢去做無市場bē趁錢ê khang-khuè，較輸做包giap：tī ē趁錢koh有市場ê物件內底，去強制加入tsi̍t-kuá人khah無愛，m̄-koh有mā bē去礙著in beh交關ê物件。
比論：集中資金去bàu 1 齣ē大銷ê banggah iah電影，提著代理權了後，除了一般ê行銷手路bē-sái輸--人以外，咱thang 硬ka加入運動ê要素，比論tī契約內底加1項：「一定ài hē台文字幕」(等等)，tsit種親像Microsoft ê商業手路，ē去教育消費者，mā ē產生市場ê慣勢，造成資本再生產ê效果。
Ē趁錢ê物tsiah做ē久長，有才調愈做愈大，mā tsiah是ē對大眾產生影響，帶動文化資本再生產ê辦法。
2009/5/13 google 阿凱
Thê-kiong 1 e
pí-kàu:
"花田一路" si Che-ui boe
siong ho e Mangkah. Tian-si-tai lian-siok kiok ma-si
an-ni.
M-ku, chia e long si Keng-che
Dominant, ideology ka-seng e chok-iong.
I-su si, Lan TOL i-sek lai,
iah-si chiap-siu TG. M-koh, ti pah-koan tau-cheng lai-toe tu-liau siu
tioh keng-che eng-hiong chi-goa, koh u Political i-goan e bun-toe. TOL
siong-ho leng-kho lau-phau, na bo-hoat-tou ah, chiah e tek-ko tau
chhai-to...
Khai
----- Original Message -----
**From:**
Lau Seng-hian
**To:** 台語網
**Sent:** Wednesday, May 13, 2009 8:54 AM
**Subject:** [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a
~~~
俊州：
真多謝！Tsit篇拄好thang提來參考，明仔載上課犯勢ē討論--tio̍h mā無的確。
有1件請教，香港話ê書寫mā無政府ê介入做規範（個人印象），m̄-koh in ê出版發展，suah tú-tú親像 Anderson 所舉歐洲ê例，是因為市場ê因素，出版商本身去做sio整會ê khang-khuè，也就是講：香港人無親像台灣人予華語文ê意識型態束縛，無親像台灣民間有hit種kā台語文當做華語次文類，無致重文字使用ê現象，tsit-ê後壁ê起致我真hòonn-hiân。
Sêng-hiân
2009/5/13 施俊州
前1 tsam-a寫1篇關係胡民祥e論文, 節錄ti e-bin. 內底有sio-khua-a khap tioh
1970年前後 台語片kap粤語片 ti 所謂 ''國片'' e ''競爭'' 之下 tsam-jian-a無kang e
''下場''(附件3-4頁,主要引學者e研究). 個人見解是: 天 kap承賢e見解long無錯. M-koh, 以Marx
''determine'' (決定) tsit-e術語kap連帶e理論內涵來看, 以電影產業來看, 1960s是關鍵期,
是政治(政府, 殖民)leh ''決定'', Ah tsit-ma(當代, 1970/80-2009)恐驚無完全是
''經濟,'' koh-khah m是政治leh(直接) ''決定.'' 1970國民黨 ''拗''--過-來以後, 消費品味(tsate)kap意識形態e角色lu來lu
'' tsiah-lat.'' 理路理清, 承賢以 ''資本主義''
救台語文化e步數tsiah有效. 以上理論背景來ti Bourdieu e
''場域(field)''理論, i 並無放棄 Marx 經濟 ''決定論'' e思考模式, 只是ka
市場分koh-khah幼, 資本類型分koh-khah多元, 而且有實證研究做té-tì.
Bong參考.
俊州
2009/5/12 Lau Seng-hian
Tsit半個月koh重讀Benedict Anderson ê Imagined
Communities，我心內慢慢á有1 ê想法，tsit-ê想法，kap
A天兄所分享ê代誌有tī-tāi。
是按怎香港有全香港話ê冊kap雜誌，結果tī台灣，台語文出版品suah真罕得看--kìnn？
翻頭看17-19世紀ê歷史，koh加上Anderson提出：「民族主義是印刷資本主義ê結果」ê主張，我雄雄致覺著：tse後壁lóng是資本主義teh做主。
香港話ê出版是按怎tī香港ē興？因為tī hia有tsit-ê市場，台灣話ê出版tī台灣是按怎一直做人tan袂tńg骨？因為無市場！
現此時1 ê有市場1ê無市場ê原因真複雜，he絕對m̄是有「自主意識」無「自主意識」就thang簡單pué會--ê，tak-ê會使想看覓（香港人ê獨立意識kám ē比台灣人khah強？騙鬼bē食水--koh！）koh，若tsit-ê考慮有理路，咱kám免sió想看beh按怎利用資本主義ê勢頭，思考咱ê策略？
2009/5/12 天
Ta̍kgê
hó:
Goá chitmá tńglâi toà tī Tâipak, ū tangsî'á chhutkhì goākháu oânná teh kā lâng kóng hōló'oē. Ū tangsî'á pa̍tlâng soah mn̄g goá, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng 'kokgí' bē?" Goá kóng: "Ēhiáu." In to̍h ìn kóng, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng hoâgí, lí ná bô kóng hoâgí?"
Chiah'ê lóng sī 40-60 hoè ê lâng teh mn̄g ánne, in mā sī kài gâu kóng hōló'oē ê lâng.
Goá chitmá khah bô 30, lâng kóng goá seⁿ chò káná m̄ chai lán Asià tó chi̍t kok ê hoanná.
Sī ánchoáⁿ pa̍t kok ê siàuliânlâng lâi Tâi'oân ài kóng hoâgí khah chūjiân.
Goá bô beh koh thiaⁿ lâng kóng he sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê. Suijiân he teksi̍t sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê, m̄ koh chitmá íkeng sī lán teh chū'ngó͘ lāisi̍tbîn ah.
Tī Hiongkáng, in chitmá ū sekchêng cha̍pchì 100 pha chū thâu kàu boé lóng ēng Kńgtang'oē teh siá ê. In hia ha̍k'hāu mā bô teh kà hit ê gígiân. Hiah'ê hiāntāi hoâgí lāibīn m̄ bat khoàⁿ tio̍h ê hànjī, he mā m̄ sī ha̍k'hāu teh kà ê, in hia soah ta̍kgê lóng ēhiáu.
Só͘'í lán TGB ê hiaⁿché ài hō͘siong biánlē, lán ài tī "bô èngkai kóng hōló'oē" ê to͘ha̍p lâi kóng hōló'oē, iûkî tùi lán khah siàuliân ê chit ûn lâi kóng, hoānsè khah khùnlân.
天
2009/5/12 Lim
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lim "
To: "台語網"
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 3:55 AM Subject: Re: [tgb]
Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
Seng-hian hiaN kap Kok-ui,Seng-hian hiaN kong liau pi goa sou kong koh-khah chheng-chho. M-ku, Li kong lan kong "F-letter words" si "khah ke" e sia-hoe gi-gian. Ki-sit ti hian-chu-si e Tai-oan sia-hoe, u tioh e sou-chai, ia u m-tioh e sou-chai.
Tioh e sou-chai: Koan5 e sia-hoe gi-gian long kap cheng-hu kau-kiat. Lan Tai-gi eng-oan bo ki-hoe, sou-i pian-seng ke e gi-gian. M-tioh e sou-chai: gi-gian eng-kai boe in-ui i e chhou-oe, phaiN-thiaN oe khah choe, tioh si khak chhou, khah bo chui-chun e gi-gian. I-siong 2 hang long-si Political constructed e kiat-ko, ia chiu-si colonized e kiat-ko.Lan chin-chiaN ai chhoe ka-ki e chhut-lou. Lan TOL ai leng-goa kau-iok ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e oe, choe lan ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e kou. An-ni Lan chiah u hi-bang. Ah, Na-si beh kek hou-i Genteel, hypocrisy, Tong-choe si subliming, HE tioh chin-chiaN lu giam-tiong, chhiuN hia e eggheads in academic positions hia e castrated toa KS ah. Lan TOL kong he tioh-si boLP.
Eng-gi thong-ti koe e sou-chai, in hia e li-lun, goa siuN, ki-sit bo hia-nih ho thiaN. Lan chia ma u. Tai-oan e Hoa-gi, oan-choan sit-khi kng-chih, kap iN-tun im, kam beh kong-si pho-hoai Hoa-gi e hoat-im?? Lan Tai-gi e hoan2 infiltrate jip Hoa-gi, "pho-hoai" hoat-gi gi-hoat e ma-si u. M-ku, che eng-kai si gi-gian chiap-siok e chu-jian hian-siong, boe-tang kong si hoan-sit-bin, iah-si De-sit-bin. Ti Tai-oan, chin-choe lang long liah-chun ka-ki kong hoa-gi kong kah siah-siah kio, kam u hoan-kong Tai-liok ?? In hia e Eng-gi kam u hoan-kong
Eng-kok? hou eng-kok lang long kong hit-khoan de-sit-bin e Eng-gi? Goa siuN, chit e gi-te, iah su-iau chin ku chin ku kap khong-kan lai phoe-hoe.Khai
Original Message ----- From: "Kei TADA" To: "台語網"
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 10:18 PM Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Tai-oan-lang chit pah-ni lai, iong Tai-gi lai tui-khong sit-bin-chia.
Koe-khi long thang hou Jit-pun keng-chhat thiaN Tai-gi thiaN-liau bu
sa-sa."Tiong-kok chiah sai". Bat Tai-gi e lang chiah u hoat-tou chhio.
Tai-gi si Tai-oan lang pi-bit e ki-ho, u chit-e ke-tat, chin ho.Tiong-kok lang na bo liau-kai Tai-gi, eng-oan bo hoat-tou liau-kai
Tai-oan-lang.Chit-ku e-tang cho chhio-khoe, si in-ui Tai-oan-lang kam-kak Tiong-kok e ap-pek.
Na bo, Tai-oan lang ma bo su-iau kong in phaiN-oe.
Au-sit-bin e chok-ka iong sit-bin gi-gian si-m-si chhi-tiuN e koan-he?ChhiuN Taioan u kui-e goan-chu-bin chok-ka, ki-pun-siong si iong
Tiong-kok-oe sia-chok. TADA2009/5/11 Lau Seng-hian :
Tsit學期讀後殖民理論，關係「語言使用」ê後殖民策略，有1項kap tse相關，就是「F-word」ê書寫，比論：James Kelman ê How late it was, how late內底大量使用英語ê "fuck"等等ê tshoh-kàn-kiāu iah歹聽話，koh加上對英語語詞kap文法ê扭曲，來達成反殖民、對殖民者kap殖民語抗議ê目的。 換1句話講：國外ê後殖民作家khah濟是the̍h「殖民語」來ka蹧躂、ka變形、ka侮辱，用殖民語來tshoh-kàn-kiāu、來講歹聽話，thang損蕩殖民ê語言頂ē位結構。 咱ê做法khah稀罕，tú-tú kap人顛倒píng，咱是the̍h咱已經hō͘人蹧躂兼鄙相ê母語來做「F-word」ê後殖民抗議，若正式ê聲明kap立場表達，suah顛倒khah tsia̍p使用殖民者ê語言，寫kah suí-khuì koh tau-sau，án-ne ê做法，kám m̄是teh助贊現此時gōng大眾對殖民語kap母語1 ê kuân 1 ê低、水準無siâng ê錯誤印象？Hō͘ ta̍k-ê參考。
2009/5/12 google 阿凱 > > Goa jin-ui che chiu-si "wordplay". bo-iau-kin. > 1. Ko-jin siu-iong, ti-hui bo-kang. Tai-chiong ma-si an-ni, su-iau e > alleviation bo-kang. > 2. Han-ji "pun-toe" tioh bo kou-teng e thak-im. Kan-na hong-pian nia. > 3. Lan ai kau-iok lan e TOL m-thang choe lang e lou-chai. Kui kang > kan-na > e-hiau 請 謝謝 對不起, lan ma ai kau-iok beh an-choaN ma, an-choaN kiau > khah > sui-khui, khah sim-sek, ji-chhiaN lan ka-ki lang chiah khoaN u. > In 中國甲獅 chit-pian , goa siuN hoan-tui-e eng-kai chiu-si lan kho-pi > e > colonized TOL. In TKL eng-kai si bo chun-bun tioh. > > > Khai > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sêng-hiân" > To: "Tai-gu-bang" > Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:23 PM > Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~ > > > > Guá teh siūⁿ...tshin-tshiūⁿ tsit khuán sú-īng Tâi-gí ê hong-sik (īng > pháiⁿ-thiaⁿ uē mā--lâng, 中國吃大便), kap tsin suî-ì ê bûn-jī sú-iōng > (Huâ- > gí Tâi-gí tho̍k-im thàu-lām tshìn-tshái sú-iōng), tuì Tâi-gí-bûn ūn- > tōng, tāu-té sī hó iah-sī bái? > > > > > On 5月11日, 上午10時56分, Hak-khiam TiuN wrote: >> >> 甲jia Hoa-gi e hoat-im, 獅sai Tai-gi hoat-im koh ka pian-cho te 2 >> siaN. >> >> Hak-khiam >> >> 2009/5/11 Sêng-hiân : >> >> >> >> > Guá tha̍k tsit 4 jī sī "tiong-kok kah sai", ì-sù khah sîng sī: >> > "China >> > and the lion"... >> >> > On 5月10日, 下午6時37分, "Lim " >> > >> > wrote: >> >> Chheh-phaiN7-a2 >> >> Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi. >> >> >> Khai >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Abon Lais >> >> To: ; >> >> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM >> >> Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~ >> >> >> tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~ >> >> >> abon ti 3teng-po > > ～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～ >>>
--
Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
--
Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
--
Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
From: 施俊州
Date: 2009-05-13 17:30:04
承賢: 實在講, 你ê指教我無研究. 單純uì歷史來看, 我leh懷疑2點: 1.古早中國leh選國語ê時, 廣東人ê政治, 經濟實力, 包括in在來ê語言態度.2.香港講是殖民地, m̄-koh英國殖民政府ê語言政策kap台灣tsit 2 ê總督府無kâng; 韓國hit-tsūn ê語言殖民mā kap戰前, 戰後ê台灣無kâng. Tsit方面ē-sái參考周婉窈(2004), 陳培豐(2006).
頂禮拜我tsiah leh kā tsit-pîng ê人講1 ê概念, vision: 台文 ''政府.'' 是講tsit-pîng(台南) ê 阿哥姊á lóng無siáⁿ有趣味ê款(我一向ē講tsi̍t-khuá ''空思夢想'' ê tāi-tsì, m̄-koh tsió人sìn-táu, e.g. 文學獎ái公開評審, 文學營ái ''戒除'' 聯誼性, 有整合功能ê全島組織etc.) 台文''政府'' 無tiāⁿ是有頭有身, 有形體ê組織, m̄-koh ē-té ài有互相聯繫ê團體, 刊物(比如台文筆會, 社區[月]報) . 親像tse全國性ê台語文 ''社區''報ài有準報業ê身分iah未來phah-sǹg, 至少有兼任ê在地通訊員, ài發稿費.橫直看有法度往未來學院正式ê新聞系所, iah是台語系所設 ''組''ê路kiâⁿ--無. 其他--ê tō mài講--ah. 總講1句, 你he ''資本主義'' ê路ái有''餡'' tī--teh. Siáⁿ-mih是資本主義? 免驚開錢. 錢īng--去自然來án-ni.
俊州
周婉窈。2004。《海行兮的年代：日本殖民統治末期台灣史論集》。初版二刷。台北：允晨。
陳培豐。2006。《「同化」的同床異夢：日治時期台灣的語言政策、近代化與認同》。台北：麥田。
2009/5/13 Lau Seng-hian
俊州：
真多謝！Tsit篇拄好thang提來參考，明仔載上課犯勢ē討論--tio̍h mā無的確。
有1件請教，香港話ê書寫mā無政府ê介入做規範（個人印象），m̄-koh in ê出版發展，suah tú-tú親像 Anderson 所舉歐洲ê例，是因為市場ê因素，出版商本身去做sio整會ê khang-khuè，也就是講：香港人無親像台灣人予華語文ê意識型態束縛，無親像台灣民間有hit種kā台語文當做華語次文類，無致重文字使用ê現象，tsit-ê後壁ê起致我真hòonn-hiân。
Sêng-hiân
2009/5/13 施俊州
前1 tsam-a寫1篇關係胡民祥e論文, 節錄ti e-bin. 內底有sio-khua-a khap tioh 1970年前後 台語片kap粤語片 ti 所謂 ''國片'' e ''競爭'' 之下 tsam-jian-a無kang e ''下場''(附件3-4頁,主要引學者e研究).
個人見解是: 天 kap承賢e見解long無錯. M-koh,
以Marx ''determine'' (決定) tsit-e術語kap連帶e理論內涵來看, 以電影產業來看, 1960s是關鍵期, 是政治(政府, 殖民)leh ''決定'', Ah tsit-ma(當代, 1970/80-2009)恐驚無完全是 ''經濟,'' koh-khah m是政治leh(直接) ''決定.'' 1970國民黨 ''拗''--過-來以後,
消費品味(tsate)kap意識形態e角色lu來lu '' tsiah-lat.'' 理路理清, 承賢以 ''資本主義'' 救台語文化e步數tsiah有效. 以上理論背景來ti Bourdieu e ''場域(field)''理論, i 並無放棄
Marx 經濟 ''決定論'' e思考模式, 只是ka 市場分koh-khah幼, 資本類型分koh-khah多元, 而且有實證研究做té-tì. Bong參考.
俊州
2009/5/12 Lau Seng-hian
Tsit半個月koh重讀Benedict Anderson ê Imagined Communities，我心內慢慢á有1 ê想法，tsit-ê想法，kap A天兄所分享ê代誌有tī-tāi。
是按怎香港有全香港話ê冊kap雜誌，結果tī台灣，台語文出版品suah真罕得看--kìnn？
翻頭看17-19世紀ê歷史，koh加上Anderson提出：「民族主義是印刷資本主義ê結果」ê主張，我雄雄致覺著：tse後壁lóng是資本主義teh做主。
香港話ê出版是按怎tī香港ē興？因為tī hia有tsit-ê市場，台灣話ê出版tī台灣是按怎一直做人tan袂tńg骨？因為無市場！
現此時1 ê有市場1ê無市場ê原因真複雜，he絕對m̄是有「自主意識」無「自主意識」就thang簡單pué會--ê，tak-ê會使想看覓（香港人ê獨立意識kám ē比台灣人khah強？騙鬼bē食水--koh！）koh，若tsit-ê考慮有理路，咱kám免sió想看beh按怎利用資本主義ê勢頭，思考咱ê策略？
2009/5/12 天
Ta̍kgê hó:
Goá chitmá tńglâi toà tī Tâipak, ū tangsî'á chhutkhì goākháu oânná teh kā lâng kóng hōló'oē. Ū tangsî'á pa̍tlâng soah mn̄g goá, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng 'kokgí' bē?" Goá kóng: "Ēhiáu." In to̍h ìn kóng, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng hoâgí, lí ná bô kóng hoâgí?"
Chiah'ê lóng sī 40-60 hoè ê lâng teh mn̄g ánne, in mā sī kài gâu kóng hōló'oē ê lâng.
Goá chitmá khah bô 30, lâng kóng goá seⁿ chò káná m̄ chai lán Asià tó chi̍t kok ê hoanná.
Sī ánchoáⁿ pa̍t kok ê siàuliânlâng lâi Tâi'oân ài kóng hoâgí khah chūjiân.
Goá bô beh koh thiaⁿ lâng kóng he sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê. Suijiân he teksi̍t sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê, m̄ koh chitmá íkeng sī lán teh chū'ngó͘ lāisi̍tbîn ah.
Tī Hiongkáng, in chitmá ū sekchêng cha̍pchì 100 pha chū thâu kàu boé lóng ēng Kńgtang'oē teh siá ê. In hia ha̍k'hāu mā bô teh kà hit ê gígiân. Hiah'ê hiāntāi hoâgí lāibīn m̄ bat khoàⁿ tio̍h ê hànjī, he mā m̄ sī ha̍k'hāu teh kà ê, in hia soah ta̍kgê lóng ēhiáu.
Só͘'í lán TGB ê hiaⁿché ài hō͘siong biánlē, lán ài tī "bô èngkai kóng hōló'oē" ê to͘ha̍p lâi kóng hōló'oē, iûkî tùi lán khah siàuliân ê chit ûn lâi kóng, hoānsè khah khùnlân.
天
2009/5/12 Lim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lim "
To: "台語網"
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 3:55 AM
Subject: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
Seng-hian hiaN kap Kok-ui,
Seng-hian hiaN kong liau pi goa sou kong koh-khah chheng-chho.
M-ku, Li kong lan kong "F-letter words" si "khah ke" e sia-hoe gi-gian.
Ki-sit ti hian-chu-si e Tai-oan sia-hoe, u tioh e sou-chai, ia u m-tioh e
sou-chai.
Tioh e sou-chai: Koan5 e sia-hoe gi-gian long kap cheng-hu kau-kiat. Lan
Tai-gi eng-oan bo ki-hoe, sou-i pian-seng ke e gi-gian.
M-tioh e sou-chai: gi-gian eng-kai boe in-ui i e chhou-oe, phaiN-thiaN oe
khah choe, tioh si khak chhou, khah bo chui-chun e gi-gian.
I-siong 2 hang long-si Political constructed e kiat-ko, ia chiu-si
colonized e kiat-ko.
Lan chin-chiaN ai chhoe ka-ki e chhut-lou. Lan TOL ai leng-goa kau-iok
ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e oe, choe lan ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e kou. An-ni
Lan chiah u hi-bang.
Ah, Na-si beh kek hou-i Genteel, hypocrisy, Tong-choe si subliming, HE
tioh chin-chiaN lu giam-tiong, chhiuN hia e eggheads in academic positions
hia e castrated toa KS ah. Lan TOL kong he tioh-si boLP.
Eng-gi thong-ti koe e sou-chai, in hia e li-lun, goa siuN, ki-sit bo
hia-nih ho thiaN. Lan chia ma u.
Tai-oan e Hoa-gi, oan-choan sit-khi kng-chih, kap iN-tun im, kam beh
kong-si pho-hoai Hoa-gi e hoat-im??
Lan Tai-gi e hoan2 infiltrate jip Hoa-gi, "pho-hoai" hoat-gi gi-hoat e
ma-si u. M-ku, che eng-kai si gi-gian chiap-siok e chu-jian hian-siong,
boe-tang kong si hoan-sit-bin, iah-si De-sit-bin.
Ti Tai-oan, chin-choe lang long liah-chun ka-ki kong hoa-gi kong kah
siah-siah kio, kam u hoan-kong Tai-liok ?? In hia e Eng-gi kam u hoan-kong
Eng-kok? hou eng-kok lang long kong hit-khoan de-sit-bin e Eng-gi? Goa
siuN, chit e gi-te, iah su-iau chin ku chin ku kap khong-kan lai phoe-hoe.
Khai
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kei TADA"
To: "台語網"
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 10:18 PM
Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Tai-oan-lang chit pah-ni lai, iong Tai-gi lai tui-khong sit-bin-chia.
Koe-khi long thang hou Jit-pun keng-chhat thiaN Tai-gi thiaN-liau bu
sa-sa.
"Tiong-kok chiah sai". Bat Tai-gi e lang chiah u hoat-tou chhio.
Tai-gi si Tai-oan lang pi-bit e ki-ho, u chit-e ke-tat, chin ho.
Tiong-kok lang na bo liau-kai Tai-gi, eng-oan bo hoat-tou liau-kai
Tai-oan-lang.
Chit-ku e-tang cho chhio-khoe, si in-ui Tai-oan-lang kam-kak Tiong-kok e
ap-pek.
Na bo, Tai-oan lang ma bo su-iau kong in phaiN-oe.
Au-sit-bin e chok-ka iong sit-bin gi-gian si-m-si chhi-tiuN e koan-he?
ChhiuN Taioan u kui-e goan-chu-bin chok-ka, ki-pun-siong si iong
Tiong-kok-oe sia-chok.
TADA
2009/5/11 Lau Seng-hian :
Tsit學期讀後殖民理論，關係「語言使用」ê後殖民策略，有1項kap tse相關，就是「F-word」ê書寫，比論：James Kelman ê How
late it was, how late內底大量使用英語ê "fuck"等等ê tshoh-kàn-kiāu
iah歹聽話，koh加上對英語語詞kap文法ê扭曲，來達成反殖民、對殖民者kap殖民語抗議ê目的。
換1句話講：國外ê後殖民作家khah濟是the̍h「殖民語」來ka蹧躂、ka變形、ka侮辱，用殖民語來tshoh-kàn-kiāu、來講歹聽話，thang損蕩殖民ê語言頂ē位結構。
咱ê做法khah稀罕，tú-tú
kap人顛倒píng，咱是the̍h咱已經hō͘人蹧躂兼鄙相ê母語來做「F-word」ê後殖民抗議，若正式ê聲明kap立場表達，suah顛倒khah
tsia̍p使用殖民者ê語言，寫kah suí-khuì koh tau-sau，án-ne ê做法，kám
m̄是teh助贊現此時gōng大眾對殖民語kap母語1 ê kuân 1 ê低、水準無siâng ê錯誤印象？
Hō͘ ta̍k-ê參考。
2009/5/12 google 阿凱
Goa jin-ui che chiu-si "wordplay". bo-iau-kin.
- Ko-jin siu-iong, ti-hui bo-kang. Tai-chiong ma-si an-ni, su-iau e
alleviation bo-kang.
- Han-ji "pun-toe" tioh bo kou-teng e thak-im. Kan-na hong-pian nia.
- Lan ai kau-iok lan e TOL m-thang choe lang e lou-chai. Kui kang
kan-na
e-hiau 請 謝謝 對不起, lan ma ai kau-iok beh an-choaN ma, an-choaN kiau
khah
sui-khui, khah sim-sek, ji-chhiaN lan ka-ki lang chiah khoaN u.
In 中國甲獅 chit-pian , goa siuN hoan-tui-e eng-kai chiu-si lan kho-pi
e
colonized TOL. In TKL eng-kai si bo chun-bun tioh.
Khai
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sêng-hiân"
To: "Tai-gu-bang"
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:23 PM
Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Guá teh siūⁿ…tshin-tshiūⁿ tsit khuán sú-īng Tâi-gí ê hong-sik (īng
pháiⁿ-thiaⁿ uē mā--lâng, 中國吃大便), kap tsin suî-ì ê bûn-jī sú-iōng
(Huâ-
gí Tâi-gí tho̍k-im thàu-lām tshìn-tshái sú-iōng), tuì Tâi-gí-bûn ūn-
tōng, tāu-té sī hó iah-sī bái?
On 5月11日, 上午10時56分, Hak-khiam TiuN wrote:
甲jia Hoa-gi e hoat-im, 獅sai Tai-gi hoat-im koh ka pian-cho te 2
siaN.
Hak-khiam
2009/5/11 Sêng-hiân :
Guá tha̍k tsit 4 jī sī "tiong-kok kah sai", ì-sù khah sîng sī:
"China
and the lion"…
On 5月10日, 下午6時37分, "Lim "
wrote:
Chheh-phaiN7-a2
Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi.
Khai
----- Original Message -----
From: Abon Lais
To: ;
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM
Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
abon ti 3teng-po
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
--
Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
From: Pochung Chen
Date: 2009-05-13 22:34:36
聖賢兄,
我一直想欲按 Benedict Anderson ê Imagined Communities (Ná-siūⁿ ê siā-lí) tsit-pún 冊內底 tshuē-tio̍h 為啥物現此時 ê 標準德語, 法語, 義大利語會變做國家 ê 標準語言, m̄-koh in ê 兄弟姊妹 (無論是德語方言, 法國 ê Occitan, Spain ê Catalan) 卻是 m̄-nā 文字化, 標準化攏慢一跤步, kàu-taⁿ koh ū “滅語” ê 劫數? 我píng lâi píng khì, 感覺 B. Anderson 並無處理 tsit-ê 問題, B. Anderson kan-ta 按呢講: 印刷資本主義興--起來 了後, 佇濟濟 ê 地方語言中, 有 ê 因為印刷術發達, 漸漸會使取代 Latin 做在地 ê 行政語言, tsia-ê 語言 漸漸變做標準語, 而且 koh 進一步 thui-sak 民族主義.
M̄-koh 我想, 按呢 ê 民族主義 ê 火 to̍h--起來 以後, suà 反過頭來壓迫 "國家” 內底其他 ê 語言, 講共 tsit-ē 國家著愛講仝款 ê 標準語言(法國著是按呢). 中國民族主義 ê 火 to̍h 了後, mā 自然會去 壓迫 "國家” 內底其他 ê 語言.
反tó-tńg lâi kóng, 我同意若台語 beh 有閣再興 ê 機會, 是一定愛有“市場”, 華語講ê 『經濟規模要夠』. 總是, 人愛會使利用台語「過日子」, mā 愛會使利用台語「趁錢」, 若無 tshuē-tio̍h sin-ê Tâi-gí ê 經濟 ê model, 台語 beh 有閣興是 khah 困難. kan-ta 有「自主意識」是 bô-siáⁿ kàu. (後手猶閣有…)
pektiong
On May 12, 2009, at 11:38 PM, Lau Seng-hian wrote:
Tsit半個月koh重讀Benedict Anderson ê Imagined Communities，我心內慢慢á有1 ê想法，tsit-ê想法，kap A天兄所分享ê代誌有tī-tāi。
是按怎香港有全香港話ê冊kap雜誌，結果tī台灣，台語文出版品suah真罕得看--kìnn？
翻頭看17-19世紀ê歷史，koh加上Anderson提出：「民族主義是印刷資本主義ê結果」ê主張，我雄雄致覺著：tse後壁lóng是資本主義teh做主。
香港話ê出版是按怎tī香港ē興？因為tī hia有tsit-ê市場，台灣話ê出版tī台灣是按怎一直做人tan袂tńg骨？因為無市場！
現此時1 ê有市場1ê無市場ê原因真複雜，he絕對m̄是有「自主意識」無「自主意識」就thang簡單pué會--ê，tak-ê會使想看覓（香港人ê獨立意識kám ē比台灣人khah強？騙鬼bē食水--koh！）koh，若tsit-ê考慮有理路，咱kám免sió想看beh按怎利用資本主義ê勢頭，思考咱ê策略？
Re: Re: [tgb] Cynic beh án-choáⁿ hoan-e̍k
From: Bun-tat Ng
Date: 2009-05-13 22:38:08
１．憤世嫉俗＋玩世不恭＋犬儒＝了然（liáu-jiân）
２．巨蛋 =天霸王體育館
３．小巨蛋 =地霸王體育館
Sa leh oo-pe̍h kóng,
ta̍k-ke mài siū-khì……
Bûn-ta̍t
2009/5/11 Lim
Ko-ūi,
cynic, in hôa-gí hoan chòe "憤世嫉俗". Ah lán Tâi-gí leh?
Khai
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
From: Pochung Chen
Date: 2009-05-13 23:20:32
俊州兄 佮 承賢兄:
俊州兄你講 ê 概念真好, 真重要! 毋過我 khah 資本主義, khah 無愛講 「政府」, 卡愛講「台語“企業界"」. 「台語企業界」無需要 tsit-ē 頭人 iah-sī 「siōng-kuân 指導單位」, 毋過「台語企業界」來 ê 濟濟企業, 需要 hō͘-siong 交流 ê 法度. 需要「業界標準」等等產業 ê 「基礎工程」. 台語企業著愛來想按怎利用台語增加產品 ê 價值, 閣按怎利用產品產品來 siâⁿ 人 學/用 台語. 無論是承賢兄講 ê báu Banggah 來發行, 順紲配台語字幕, 抑是 tsiūⁿ 俊州兄講 ê 出[月]報, 犯勢咱著愛當做「生理」來 tsuè, 做 khah-ē 久長, sak 台語 ê 效果 嘛 卡好. 我個人 khah 有興趣 ê 是做下跤 tsia-ê 生理. *專業台語文翻譯 *專業台語文電腦文書處理 kap 出版 *專業台語文影音 *台語文(月,周)報紙
*囡仔 ê 台語文(囡仔冊, 囡仔歌, thit-thô-mi̍h, Banggah) *台語文教育系統(幼稚園, 學校)
因為猶無啥資金, tsit-má khah siūⁿ-beh sing tsò 台語文ê電子報(非文學性) kap 用電腦排版出 PDF ê 冊 + print on demand (POD).
Pektiong
On May 13, 2009, at 5:30 PM, 施俊州 wrote:
承賢: 實在講, 你ê指教我無研究. 單純uì歷史來看, 我leh懷疑2點: 1.古早中國leh選國語ê時, 廣東人ê政治, 經濟實力, 包括in在來ê語言態度.2.香港講是殖民地, m̄-koh英國殖民政府ê語言政策kap台灣tsit 2 ê總督府無kâng; 韓國hit-tsūn ê語言殖民mā kap戰前, 戰後ê台灣無kâng. Tsit方面ē-sái參考周婉窈(2004), 陳培豐(2006).
頂禮拜我tsiah leh kā tsit-pîng ê人講1 ê概念, vision: 台文 ''政府.'' 是講tsit-pîng(台南) ê 阿哥姊á lóng無siáⁿ有趣味ê款(我一向ē講tsi̍t-khuá ''空思夢想'' ê tāi-tsì, m̄-koh tsió人sìn-táu, e.g. 文學獎ái公開評審, 文學營ái ''戒除'' 聯誼性, 有整合功能ê全島組織etc.) 台文''政府'' 無tiāⁿ是有頭有身, 有形體ê組織, m̄-koh ē-té ài有互相聯繫ê團體, 刊物(比如台文筆會, 社區[月]報) . 親像tse全國性ê台語文 ''社區''報ài有準報業ê身分iah未來phah-sǹg, 至少有兼任ê在地通訊員, ài發稿費.橫直看有法度往未來學院正式ê新聞系所, iah是台語系所設 ''組''ê路kiâⁿ--無. 其他--ê tō mài講--ah. 總講1句, 你he ''資本主義'' ê路ái有''餡'' tī--teh. Siáⁿ-mih是資本主義? 免驚開錢. 錢īng--去自然來án-ni.
俊州
周婉窈。2004。《海行兮的年代：日本殖民統治末期台灣史論集》。初版二刷。台北：允晨。 陳培豐。2006。《「同化」的同床異夢：日治時期台灣的語言政策、近代化與認同》。台北：麥田。
2009/5/13 Lau Seng-hian 俊州：
真多謝！Tsit篇拄好thang提來參考，明仔載上課犯勢ē討論--tio̍h mā無的確。
有1件請教，香港話ê書寫mā無政府ê介入做規範（個人印象），m̄-koh in ê出版發展，suah tú-tú親像 Anderson 所舉歐洲ê例，是因為市場ê因素，出版商本身去做sio整會ê khang-khuè，也就是講：香港人無親像台灣人予華語文ê意識型態束縛，無親像台灣民間有hit種kā台語文當做華語次文類，無致重文字使用ê現象，tsit-ê後壁ê起致我真hòonn-hiân。
Sêng-hiân
2009/5/13 施俊州
前1 tsam-a寫1篇關係胡民祥e論文, 節錄ti e-bin. 內底有sio-khua-a khap tioh 1970年前後 台語片kap粤語片 ti 所謂 ''國片'' e ''競爭'' 之下 tsam-jian-a無kang e ''下場''(附件3-4頁,主要引學者e研究). 個人見解是: 天 kap承賢e見解long無錯. M-koh, 以Marx ''determine'' (決定) tsit-e術語kap連帶e理論內涵來看, 以電影產業來看, 1960s是關鍵期, 是政治(政府, 殖民)leh ''決定'', Ah tsit-ma(當代, 1970/80-2009)恐驚無完全是 ''經濟,'' koh-khah m是政治leh(直接) ''決定.'' 1970國民黨 ''拗''--過-來以後, 消費品味(tsate)kap意識形態e角色lu來lu '' tsiah-lat.'' 理路理清, 承賢以 ''資本主義'' 救台語文化e步數tsiah有效. 以上理論背景來ti Bourdieu e ''場域(field)''理論, i 並無放棄 Marx 經濟 ''決定論'' e思考模式, 只是ka 市場分koh-khah幼, 資本類型分koh-khah多元, 而且有實證研究做té-tì. Bong參考.
俊州
2009/5/12 Lau Seng-hian
Tsit半個月koh重讀Benedict Anderson ê Imagined Communities，我心內慢慢á有1 ê想法，tsit-ê想法，kap A天兄所分享ê代誌有tī-tāi。
是按怎香港有全香港話ê冊kap雜誌，結果tī台灣，台語文出版品suah真罕得看--kìnn？
翻頭看17-19世紀ê歷史，koh加上Anderson提出：「民族主義是印刷資本主義ê結果」ê主張，我雄雄致覺著：tse後壁lóng是資本主義teh做主。
香港話ê出版是按怎tī香港ē興？因為tī hia有tsit-ê市場，台灣話ê出版tī台灣是按怎一直做人tan袂tńg骨？因為無市場！
現此時1 ê有市場1ê無市場ê原因真複雜，he絕對m̄是有「自主意識」無「自主意識」就thang簡單pué會--ê，tak-ê會使想看覓（香港人ê獨立意識kám ē比台灣人khah強？騙鬼bē食水--koh！）koh，若tsit-ê考慮有理路，咱kám免sió想看beh按怎利用資本主義ê勢頭，思考咱ê策略？
2009/5/12 天
Ta̍kgê hó:
Goá chitmá tńglâi toà tī Tâipak, ū tangsî'á chhutkhì goākháu oânná teh kā lâng kóng hōló'oē. Ū tangsî'á pa̍tlâng soah mn̄g goá, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng 'kokgí' bē?" Goá kóng: "Ēhiáu." In to̍h ìn kóng, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng hoâgí, lí ná bô kóng hoâgí?"
Chiah'ê lóng sī 40-60 hoè ê lâng teh mn̄g ánne, in mā sī kài gâu kóng hōló'oē ê lâng.
Goá chitmá khah bô 30, lâng kóng goá seⁿ chò káná m̄ chai lán Asià tó chi̍t kok ê hoanná.
Sī ánchoáⁿ pa̍t kok ê siàuliânlâng lâi Tâi'oân ài kóng hoâgí khah chūjiân.
Goá bô beh koh thiaⁿ lâng kóng he sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê. Suijiân he teksi̍t sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê, m̄ koh chitmá íkeng sī lán teh chū'ngó͘ lāisi̍tbîn ah.
Tī Hiongkáng, in chitmá ū sekchêng cha̍pchì 100 pha chū thâu kàu boé lóng ēng Kńgtang'oē teh siá ê. In hia ha̍k'hāu mā bô teh kà hit ê gígiân. Hiah'ê hiāntāi hoâgí lāibīn m̄ bat khoàⁿ tio̍h ê hànjī, he mā m̄ sī ha̍k'hāu teh kà ê, in hia soah ta̍kgê lóng ēhiáu.
Só͘'í lán TGB ê hiaⁿché ài hō͘siong biánlē, lán ài tī "bô èngkai kóng hōló'oē" ê to͘ha̍p lâi kóng hōló'oē, iûkî tùi lán khah siàuliân ê chit ûn lâi kóng, hoānsè khah khùnlân.
天
2009/5/12 Lim
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lim " To: "台語網"
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 3:55 AM Subject: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
Seng-hian hiaN kap Kok-ui,
Seng-hian hiaN kong liau pi goa sou kong koh-khah chheng-chho. M-ku, Li kong lan kong "F-letter words" si "khah ke" e sia-hoe gi-gian. Ki-sit ti hian-chu-si e Tai-oan sia-hoe, u tioh e sou-chai, ia u m-tioh e sou-chai. Tioh e sou-chai: Koan5 e sia-hoe gi-gian long kap cheng-hu kau-kiat. Lan Tai-gi eng-oan bo ki-hoe, sou-i pian-seng ke e gi-gian. M-tioh e sou-chai: gi-gian eng-kai boe in-ui i e chhou-oe, phaiN-thiaN oe khah choe, tioh si khak chhou, khah bo chui-chun e gi-gian. I-siong 2 hang long-si Political constructed e kiat-ko, ia chiu-si colonized e kiat-ko.
Lan chin-chiaN ai chhoe ka-ki e chhut-lou. Lan TOL ai leng-goa kau-iok ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e oe, choe lan ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e kou. An-ni Lan chiah u hi-bang. Ah, Na-si beh kek hou-i Genteel, hypocrisy, Tong-choe si subliming, HE tioh chin-chiaN lu giam-tiong, chhiuN hia e eggheads in academic positions hia e castrated toa KS ah. Lan TOL kong he tioh-si boLP.
Eng-gi thong-ti koe e sou-chai, in hia e li-lun, goa siuN, ki-sit bo hia-nih ho thiaN. Lan chia ma u. Tai-oan e Hoa-gi, oan-choan sit-khi kng-chih, kap iN-tun im, kam beh kong-si pho-hoai Hoa-gi e hoat-im?? Lan Tai-gi e hoan2 infiltrate jip Hoa-gi, "pho-hoai" hoat-gi gi-hoat e ma-si u. M-ku, che eng-kai si gi-gian chiap-siok e chu-jian hian-siong, boe-tang kong si hoan-sit-bin, iah-si De-sit-bin. Ti Tai-oan, chin-choe lang long liah-chun ka-ki kong hoa-gi kong kah siah-siah kio, kam u hoan-kong Tai-liok ?? In hia e Eng-gi kam u hoan-kong Eng-kok? hou eng-kok lang long kong hit-khoan de-sit-bin e Eng-gi? Goa siuN, chit e gi-te, iah su-iau chin ku chin ku kap khong-kan lai phoe-hoe.
Khai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kei TADA" To: "台語網" Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 10:18 PM Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Tai-oan-lang chit pah-ni lai, iong Tai-gi lai tui-khong sit-bin-chia.
Koe-khi long thang hou Jit-pun keng-chhat thiaN Tai-gi thiaN-liau bu sa-sa.
"Tiong-kok chiah sai". Bat Tai-gi e lang chiah u hoat-tou chhio.
Tai-gi si Tai-oan lang pi-bit e ki-ho, u chit-e ke-tat, chin ho.
Tiong-kok lang na bo liau-kai Tai-gi, eng-oan bo hoat-tou liau-kai Tai-oan-lang.
Chit-ku e-tang cho chhio-khoe, si in-ui Tai-oan-lang kam-kak Tiong-kok e ap-pek.
Na bo, Tai-oan lang ma bo su-iau kong in phaiN-oe.
Au-sit-bin e chok-ka iong sit-bin gi-gian si-m-si chhi-tiuN e koan-he?
ChhiuN Taioan u kui-e goan-chu-bin chok-ka, ki-pun-siong si iong Tiong-kok-oe sia-chok.
TADA
2009/5/11 Lau Seng-hian :
Tsit學期讀後殖民理論，關係「語言使用」ê後殖民策略，有1項kap tse相關，就是「F-word」ê書寫，比論：James Kelman ê How late it was, how late內底大量使用英語ê "fuck"等等ê tshoh-kàn-kiāu iah歹聽話，koh加上對英語語詞kap文法ê扭曲，來達成反殖民、對殖民者kap殖民語抗議ê目的。
換1句話講：國外ê後殖民作家khah濟是the̍h「殖民語」來ka蹧躂、ka變形、ka侮辱，用殖民語來tshoh-kàn-kiāu、來講歹聽話，thang損蕩殖民ê語言頂ē位結構。
咱ê做法khah稀罕，tú-tú kap人顛倒píng，咱是the̍h咱已經hō͘人蹧躂兼鄙相ê母語來做「F-word」ê後殖民抗議，若正式ê聲明kap立場表達，suah顛倒khah tsia̍p使用殖民者ê語言，寫kah suí-khuì koh tau-sau，án-ne ê做法，kám m̄是teh助贊現此時gōng大眾對殖民語kap母語1 ê kuân 1 ê低、水準無siâng ê錯誤印象？
Hō͘ ta̍k-ê參考。
2009/5/12 google 阿凱
Goa jin-ui che chiu-si "wordplay". bo-iau-kin.
- Ko-jin siu-iong, ti-hui bo-kang. Tai-chiong ma-si an-ni, su-iau e alleviation bo-kang.
- Han-ji "pun-toe" tioh bo kou-teng e thak-im. Kan-na hong-pian nia.
- Lan ai kau-iok lan e TOL m-thang choe lang e lou-chai. Kui kang kan-na e-hiau 請 謝謝 對不起, lan ma ai kau-iok beh an-choaN ma, an-choaN kiau khah sui-khui, khah sim-sek, ji-chhiaN lan ka-ki lang chiah khoaN u. In 中國甲獅 chit-pian , goa siuN hoan-tui-e eng-kai chiu-si lan kho-pi e colonized TOL. In TKL eng-kai si bo chun-bun tioh.
Khai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sêng-hiân" To: "Tai-gu-bang" Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:23 PM Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Guá teh siūⁿ…tshin-tshiūⁿ tsit khuán sú-īng Tâi-gí ê hong-sik (īng pháiⁿ-thiaⁿ uē mā--lâng, 中國吃大便), kap tsin suî-ì ê bûn-jī sú-iōng (Huâ- gí Tâi-gí tho̍k-im thàu-lām tshìn-tshái sú-iōng), tuì Tâi-gí-bûn ūn- tōng, tāu-té sī hó iah-sī bái?
On 5月11日, 上午10時56分, Hak-khiam TiuN wrote:
甲jia Hoa-gi e hoat-im, 獅sai Tai-gi hoat-im koh ka pian-cho te 2 siaN.
Hak-khiam
2009/5/11 Sêng-hiân :
Guá tha̍k tsit 4 jī sī "tiong-kok kah sai", ì-sù khah sîng sī: "China and the lion"…
On 5月10日, 下午6時37分, "Lim "
wrote:
Chheh-phaiN7-a2 Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi.
Khai
----- Original Message ----- From: Abon Lais To: ; Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
abon ti 3teng-po
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
--
Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
Re: Fwd: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
From: 施俊州
Date: 2009-05-14 03:14:43
Pektiong ê ''企業化'' 思考put-tsí-á desirable ! 是講tsit方面我sǹg外行, 我tio̍h ''tshuì that tsi̍h''(tiām-tiām)khah有影. 單純以消費者ê角度提議: *專業台語文翻譯: 日本時代''國語,'' 教育方面ê文獻lán tsit-pîng ài緊翻. Tshan像 ''台灣教育沿革誌'' iah陳恆嘉ê碩士論文. 前tsi̍t-tsām-á讀吳文星, 周婉窈, 陳培豐ê mi̍h-kiāⁿ深深有tsit-lō感覺. Tsiah-ê學者對台語文運動ke減有偏見iah盲點是事實. 可惜在下是日語文盲, 無 i 法.
*專業台語文電腦文書處理 kap 出版: (無意見)
*專業台語文影音: 08大選前Hō-ló委員會ê案去hō͘副院長邱義仁主張撤--掉, kah taⁿ我iá無法度諒解--i, 因為he代表台語電視台mā免siàu-siūⁿ--a. 另外, 我講吳念真ê ''多桑''劇本是khuê-kha-phuà-siùⁿ ê文化想像, mā屬tsit方面ê思考. 東華大學ê民族學院有設 ''語傳系'' (族語傳播應用hit類--ê), lán mā put-tsí-á欣羨. Lín tō tsai講中華民國政府(KMT, DPP在額) luā惡質.
*台語文(月,周)報紙: 個人主張, 靈感來tī ''台灣語文月報,'' ''論報,'' 以及hō͘人bē ǹg ê教會公報, 稱 ''永遠ê台語報業.''
*囡仔 ê 台語文(囡仔冊, 囡仔歌, thit-thô-mi̍h, Banggah): 現此時台語家庭教育ê環境tsiâⁿ bái才, 我想tsit-tè市場iá真闊. 我ê朋友uì美國tshuē kah tńg來台灣, iá koh leh ''怨嘆,'' tō是因為買無siáⁿ-mih好ê商品.
*台語文教育系統(幼稚園, 學校): 皇民化時期日本政府有設 ''國語保育園,'' 稱 ''幼兒國語講習所.'' ''國語講習所'' 是社會教育機構, m̄是學校教育, 日本政府尚且īng公費tī leh支持iah補助. lán tō thang tsai ''國語'' ê利(厲)害. 前1 站á發現網路有1張相片tī leh phah賣(請看ē-bīn網址), 我有建議台南tsit-pîng ê朋友買, in tō是無人beh tshap--我. 雖然lóng是好朋友, m̄-koh 我iá是講: lán 台文界, 我ê朋友 ''歷史感'' lóng有 khih(缺). 無leh趁錢ê我tsit-má iáu leh後悔無買.
相片2,550 kh.(請以yahoo口座登錄):
http://tw.f2.page.bid.yahoo.com/tw/auction/b47387848?u=jean851123
俊州
2009/5/13 Pochung Chen
俊州兄 佮 承賢兄:
俊州兄你講 ê 概念真好, 真重要! 毋過我 khah 資本主義, khah 無愛講 「政府」, 卡愛講「台語“企業界"」.
「台語企業界」無需要 tsit-ē 頭人 iah-sī 「siōng-kuân 指導單位」, 毋過「台語企業界」來 ê 濟濟企業, 需要 hō͘-siong 交流 ê 法度. 需要「業界標準」等等產業 ê 「基礎工程」. 台語企業著愛來想按怎利用台語增加產品 ê 價值, 閣按怎利用產品產品來 siâⁿ 人 學/用 台語. 無論是承賢兄講 ê báu Banggah 來發行, 順紲配台語字幕, 抑是 tsiūⁿ 俊州兄講 ê
出[月]報, 犯勢咱著愛當做「生理」來 tsuè, 做 khah-ē 久長, sak 台語 ê 效果 嘛 卡好. 我個人 khah 有興趣 ê 是做下跤 tsia-ê 生理. *專業台語文翻譯 *專業台語文電腦文書處理 kap 出版 *專業台語文影音 *台語文(月,周)報紙
*囡仔 ê 台語文(囡仔冊, 囡仔歌, thit-thô-mi̍h, Banggah) *台語文教育系統(幼稚園, 學校)
因為猶無啥資金, tsit-má khah siūⁿ-beh sing tsò 台語文ê電子報(非文學性) kap 用電腦排版出 PDF ê 冊 + print on demand (POD).
Pektiong
On May 13, 2009, at 5:30 PM, 施俊州 wrote:
承賢: 實在講, 你ê指教我無研究. 單純uì歷史來看, 我leh懷疑2點: 1.古早中國leh選國語ê時, 廣東人ê政治, 經濟實力, 包括in在來ê語言態度.2.香港講是殖民地, m̄-koh英國殖民政府ê語言政策kap台灣tsit 2 ê總督府無kâng; 韓國hit-tsūn ê語言殖民mā kap戰前, 戰後ê台灣無kâng. Tsit方面ē-sái參考周婉窈(2004), 陳培豐(2006).
頂禮拜我tsiah leh kā tsit-pîng ê人講1 ê概念, vision: 台文 ''政府.'' 是講tsit-pîng(台南) ê 阿哥姊á lóng無siáⁿ有趣味ê款(我一向ē講tsi̍t-khuá ''空思夢想'' ê tāi-tsì, m̄-koh tsió人sìn-táu, e.g. 文學獎ái公開評審, 文學營ái ''戒除'' 聯誼性, 有整合功能ê全島組織etc.) 台文''政府'' 無tiāⁿ是有頭有身, 有形體ê組織, m̄-koh ē-té ài有互相聯繫ê團體, 刊物(比如台文筆會, 社區[月]報) . 親像tse全國性ê台語文 ''社區''報ài有準報業ê身分iah未來phah-sǹg, 至少有兼任ê在地通訊員, ài發稿費.橫直看有法度往未來學院正式ê新聞系所, iah是台語系所設 ''組''ê路kiâⁿ--無. 其他--ê tō mài講--ah. 總講1句, 你he ''資本主義'' ê路ái有''餡'' tī--teh. Siáⁿ-mih是資本主義? 免驚開錢. 錢īng--去自然來án-ni.
俊州
周婉窈。2004。《海行兮的年代：日本殖民統治末期台灣史論集》。初版二刷。台北：允晨。
陳培豐。2006。《「同化」的同床異夢：日治時期台灣的語言政策、近代化與認同》。台北：麥田。
2009/5/13 Lau Seng-hian
俊州：
真多謝！Tsit篇拄好thang提來參考，明仔載上課犯勢ē討論--tio̍h mā無的確。
有1件請教，香港話ê書寫mā無政府ê介入做規範（個人印象），m̄-koh in ê出版發展，suah tú-tú親像 Anderson 所舉歐洲ê例，是因為市場ê因素，出版商本身去做sio整會ê khang-khuè，也就是講：香港人無親像台灣人予華語文ê意識型態束縛，無親像台灣民間有hit種kā台語文當做華語次文類，無致重文字使用ê現象，tsit-ê後壁ê起致我真hòonn-hiân。
Sêng-hiân
2009/5/13 施俊州
前1 tsam-a寫1篇關係胡民祥e論文, 節錄ti e-bin. 內底有sio-khua-a khap tioh 1970年前後 台語片kap粤語片 ti 所謂 ''國片'' e ''競爭'' 之下 tsam-jian-a無kang e ''下場''(附件3-4頁,主要引學者e研究).
個人見解是: 天 kap承賢e見解long無錯. M-koh, 以Marx ''determine'' (決定) tsit-e術語kap連帶e理論內涵來看, 以電影產業來看, 1960s是關鍵期, 是政治(政府, 殖民)leh ''決定'', Ah tsit-ma(當代, 1970/80-2009)恐驚無完全是 ''經濟,''
koh-khah m是政治leh(直接) ''決定.'' 1970國民黨 ''拗''--過-來以後, 消費品味(tsate)kap意識形態e角色lu來lu '' tsiah-lat.'' 理路理清, 承賢以 ''資本主義'' 救台語文化e步數tsiah有效.
以上理論背景來ti Bourdieu e ''場域(field)''理論, i 並無放棄 Marx 經濟 ''決定論'' e思考模式, 只是ka 市場分koh-khah幼, 資本類型分koh-khah多元, 而且有實證研究做té-tì. Bong參考.
俊州
2009/5/12 Lau Seng-hian
Tsit半個月koh重讀Benedict Anderson ê Imagined Communities，我心內慢慢á有1 ê想法，tsit-ê想法，kap A天兄所分享ê代誌有tī-tāi。
是按怎香港有全香港話ê冊kap雜誌，結果tī台灣，台語文出版品suah真罕得看--kìnn？
翻頭看17-19世紀ê歷史，koh加上Anderson提出：「民族主義是印刷資本主義ê結果」ê主張，我雄雄致覺著：tse後壁lóng是資本主義teh做主。
香港話ê出版是按怎tī香港ē興？因為tī hia有tsit-ê市場，台灣話ê出版tī台灣是按怎一直做人tan袂tńg骨？因為無市場！
現此時1 ê有市場1ê無市場ê原因真複雜，he絕對m̄是有「自主意識」無「自主意識」就thang簡單pué會--ê，tak-ê會使想看覓（香港人ê獨立意識kám ē比台灣人khah強？騙鬼bē食水--koh！）koh，若tsit-ê考慮有理路，咱kám免sió想看beh按怎利用資本主義ê勢頭，思考咱ê策略？
2009/5/12 天
Ta̍kgê hó:
Goá chitmá tńglâi toà tī Tâipak, ū tangsî'á chhutkhì goākháu oânná teh kā lâng kóng hōló'oē. Ū tangsî'á pa̍tlâng soah mn̄g goá, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng 'kokgí' bē?" Goá kóng: "Ēhiáu." In to̍h ìn kóng, "Ah lí ēhiáu kóng hoâgí, lí ná bô kóng hoâgí?"
Chiah'ê lóng sī 40-60 hoè ê lâng teh mn̄g ánne, in mā sī kài gâu kóng hōló'oē ê lâng.
Goá chitmá khah bô 30, lâng kóng goá seⁿ chò káná m̄ chai lán Asià tó chi̍t kok ê hoanná.
Sī ánchoáⁿ pa̍t kok ê siàuliânlâng lâi Tâi'oân ài kóng hoâgí khah chūjiân.
Goá bô beh koh thiaⁿ lâng kóng he sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê. Suijiân he teksi̍t sī si̍tbîn chènghú hāi ê, m̄ koh chitmá íkeng sī lán teh chū'ngó͘ lāisi̍tbîn ah.
Tī Hiongkáng, in chitmá ū sekchêng cha̍pchì 100 pha chū thâu kàu boé lóng ēng Kńgtang'oē teh siá ê. In hia ha̍k'hāu mā bô teh kà hit ê gígiân. Hiah'ê hiāntāi hoâgí lāibīn m̄ bat khoàⁿ tio̍h ê hànjī, he mā m̄ sī ha̍k'hāu teh kà ê, in hia soah ta̍kgê lóng ēhiáu.
Só͘'í lán TGB ê hiaⁿché ài hō͘siong biánlē, lán ài tī "bô èngkai kóng hōló'oē" ê to͘ha̍p lâi kóng hōló'oē, iûkî tùi lán khah siàuliân ê chit ûn lâi kóng, hoānsè khah khùnlân.
天
2009/5/12 Lim
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lim "
To: "台語網"
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 3:55 AM Subject: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
Seng-hian hiaN kap Kok-ui,
Seng-hian hiaN kong liau pi goa sou kong koh-khah chheng-chho. M-ku, Li kong lan kong "F-letter words" si "khah ke" e sia-hoe gi-gian.
Ki-sit ti hian-chu-si e Tai-oan sia-hoe, u tioh e sou-chai, ia u m-tioh e sou-chai. Tioh e sou-chai: Koan5 e sia-hoe gi-gian long kap cheng-hu kau-kiat. Lan Tai-gi eng-oan bo ki-hoe, sou-i pian-seng ke e gi-gian.
M-tioh e sou-chai: gi-gian eng-kai boe in-ui i e chhou-oe, phaiN-thiaN oe khah choe, tioh si khak chhou, khah bo chui-chun e gi-gian. I-siong 2 hang long-si Political constructed e kiat-ko, ia chiu-si
colonized e kiat-ko.
Lan chin-chiaN ai chhoe ka-ki e chhut-lou. Lan TOL ai leng-goa kau-iok ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e oe, choe lan ka-ki, kong lan ka-ki e kou. An-ni Lan chiah u hi-bang.
Ah, Na-si beh kek hou-i Genteel, hypocrisy, Tong-choe si subliming, HE tioh chin-chiaN lu giam-tiong, chhiuN hia e eggheads in academic positions hia e castrated toa KS ah. Lan TOL kong he tioh-si boLP.
Eng-gi thong-ti koe e sou-chai, in hia e li-lun, goa siuN, ki-sit bo hia-nih ho thiaN. Lan chia ma u. Tai-oan e Hoa-gi, oan-choan sit-khi kng-chih, kap iN-tun im, kam beh kong-si pho-hoai Hoa-gi e hoat-im??
Lan Tai-gi e hoan2 infiltrate jip Hoa-gi, "pho-hoai" hoat-gi gi-hoat e ma-si u. M-ku, che eng-kai si gi-gian chiap-siok e chu-jian hian-siong, boe-tang kong si hoan-sit-bin, iah-si De-sit-bin.
Ti Tai-oan, chin-choe lang long liah-chun ka-ki kong hoa-gi kong kah siah-siah kio, kam u hoan-kong Tai-liok ?? In hia e Eng-gi kam u hoan-kong Eng-kok? hou eng-kok lang long kong hit-khoan de-sit-bin e Eng-gi? Goa
siuN, chit e gi-te, iah su-iau chin ku chin ku kap khong-kan lai phoe-hoe.
Khai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kei TADA"
To: "台語網" Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 10:18 PM Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Tai-oan-lang chit pah-ni lai, iong Tai-gi lai tui-khong sit-bin-chia.
Koe-khi long thang hou Jit-pun keng-chhat thiaN Tai-gi thiaN-liau bu sa-sa.
"Tiong-kok chiah sai". Bat Tai-gi e lang chiah u hoat-tou chhio.
Tai-gi si Tai-oan lang pi-bit e ki-ho, u chit-e ke-tat, chin ho.
Tiong-kok lang na bo liau-kai Tai-gi, eng-oan bo hoat-tou liau-kai
Tai-oan-lang.
Chit-ku e-tang cho chhio-khoe, si in-ui Tai-oan-lang kam-kak Tiong-kok e ap-pek.
Na bo, Tai-oan lang ma bo su-iau kong in phaiN-oe.
Au-sit-bin e chok-ka iong sit-bin gi-gian si-m-si chhi-tiuN e koan-he?
ChhiuN Taioan u kui-e goan-chu-bin chok-ka, ki-pun-siong si iong Tiong-kok-oe sia-chok.
TADA
2009/5/11 Lau Seng-hian :
Tsit學期讀後殖民理論，關係「語言使用」ê後殖民策略，有1項kap tse相關，就是「F-word」ê書寫，比論：James Kelman ê How
late it was, how late內底大量使用英語ê "fuck"等等ê tshoh-kàn-kiāu iah歹聽話，koh加上對英語語詞kap文法ê扭曲，來達成反殖民、對殖民者kap殖民語抗議ê目的。
換1句話講：國外ê後殖民作家khah濟是the̍h「殖民語」來ka蹧躂、ka變形、ka侮辱，用殖民語來tshoh-kàn-kiāu、來講歹聽話，thang損蕩殖民ê語言頂ē位結構。
咱ê做法khah稀罕，tú-tú kap人顛倒píng，咱是the̍h咱已經hō͘人蹧躂兼鄙相ê母語來做「F-word」ê後殖民抗議，若正式ê聲明kap立場表達，suah顛倒khah tsia̍p使用殖民者ê語言，寫kah suí-khuì koh tau-sau，án-ne ê做法，kám m̄是teh助贊現此時gōng大眾對殖民語kap母語1 ê kuân 1 ê低、水準無siâng ê錯誤印象？
Hō͘ ta̍k-ê參考。
2009/5/12 google 阿凱
Goa jin-ui che chiu-si "wordplay". bo-iau-kin.
- Ko-jin siu-iong, ti-hui bo-kang. Tai-chiong ma-si an-ni, su-iau e alleviation bo-kang.
- Han-ji "pun-toe" tioh bo kou-teng e thak-im. Kan-na hong-pian nia.
- Lan ai kau-iok lan e TOL m-thang choe lang e lou-chai. Kui kang kan-na e-hiau 請 謝謝 對不起, lan ma ai kau-iok beh an-choaN ma, an-choaN kiau
khah sui-khui, khah sim-sek, ji-chhiaN lan ka-ki lang chiah khoaN u. In 中國甲獅 chit-pian , goa siuN hoan-tui-e eng-kai chiu-si lan kho-pi e
colonized TOL. In TKL eng-kai si bo chun-bun tioh.
Khai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sêng-hiân"
To: "Tai-gu-bang" Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:23 PM Subject: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
Guá teh siūⁿ…tshin-tshiūⁿ tsit khuán sú-īng Tâi-gí ê hong-sik (īng pháiⁿ-thiaⁿ uē mā--lâng, 中國吃大便), kap tsin suî-ì ê bûn-jī sú-iōng
(Huâ- gí Tâi-gí tho̍k-im thàu-lām tshìn-tshái sú-iōng), tuì Tâi-gí-bûn ūn- tōng, tāu-té sī hó iah-sī bái?
On 5月11日, 上午10時56分, Hak-khiam TiuN wrote:
甲jia Hoa-gi e hoat-im, 獅sai Tai-gi hoat-im koh ka pian-cho te 2
siaN.
Hak-khiam
2009/5/11 Sêng-hiân :
Guá tha̍k tsit 4 jī sī "tiong-kok kah sai", ì-sù khah sîng sī: "China
and the lion"…
On 5月10日, 下午6時37分, "Lim "
wrote:
Chheh-phaiN7-a2 Good ! Chioh in Tiong-kok ji lai sia Tai-gi.
Khai
----- Original Message ----- From: Abon Lais To: ;
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:29 PM Subject: [tgb] tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
tiong-kok chiah-sai e chhe-phaiN-a ~~~
abon ti 3teng-po
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
--
Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: Cynic beh án-choáⁿ hoan-e̍k
From: Hak-khiam TiuN
Date: 2009-05-14 06:02:40
Goa kam-kak u e goa-lai-gi tioh bian hoan-ek i-su, tit-chiap chioh-im ah-si chiau goan-bun sia loh-lai tioh ho. Che si in-ui u e su, poe-au u sia-hoe, bun-hoa, lek-su…iong lan e oe lai kong, sit-chai kong beh soah, put-ju tioh mai ka hoan i-su. ThiaN-kong Hut-keng hoan-ek u liat koa bo beh hoan i-su e le.Hak-khaim2009/5/13 Bun-tat Ng :
１．憤世嫉俗＋玩世不恭＋犬儒＝了然（liáu-jiân） ２．巨蛋 =天霸王體育館 ３．小巨蛋 =地霸王體育館
Sa leh oo-pe̍h kóng,
ta̍k-ke mài siū-khì……
Bûn-ta̍t
2009/5/11 Lim
Ko-ūi, cynic, in hôa-gí hoan chòe "憤世嫉俗". Ah lán Tâi-gí leh?
Khai
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: Cynic beh án-choáⁿ hoan-e̍k
From: google 阿凱
Date: 2009-05-14 07:55:22
Goa Tong-i Hak-khiam hiaN e i-kian. Si-kong, Goa teh siuN hia e i-su, Lan Tai-gi kam bo oe thang kong? Na bo, kam e-sai kong " Hun3-se3-chek-siok8" ? " oan2-se3-put-kiong" ? Kho-leng si e-sai, thau-koe chok-phin, long-iong liau-au, un-na e thong. ChhiuN chit-khoan "巨蛋" e, goa jin-ui eng Arena OK, tioh chhiuN gun chia e Avocado. Ah na-si "犬儒" chit-khoan e hoan-ek, goa tioh kam-kak si eng 1 mia5 thoe 1 mia5 nia5 (signifier substitution), chai-lai it-tit khun-jiau goa, boe-a chiam-chiam chai-iaN goan-lai si cynic, eng google khi chha he u chin-choe kou-su ti hin, boe-tang te-te soeh-beng. "犬儒" boe bi Cynic khah ho goa-choe. Ah na si lan, chia e lang m-chai-iaN cynic si siaN-mih i-su. Chiah khi kai-soeh chiu kho-i.
Khai May 14 09 am ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hak-khiam TiuN" To: "Bun-tat Ng" Cc: "Lim " ; "Lau Seng-hian" ; "台語網" Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 6:02 AM Subject: Re: [tgb] Re: Cynic beh án-choáⁿ hoan-e̍k
Goa kam-kak u e goa-lai-gi tioh bian hoan-ek i-su, tit-chiap chioh-im ah-si chiau goan-bun sia loh-lai tioh ho. Che si in-ui u e su, poe-au u sia-hoe, bun-hoa, lek-su…iong lan e oe lai kong, sit-chai kong beh soah, put-ju tioh mai ka hoan i-su. ThiaN-kong Hut-keng hoan-ek u liat koa bo beh hoan i-su e le.
Hak-khaim
2009/5/13 Bun-tat Ng :
１．憤世嫉俗＋玩世不恭＋犬儒＝了然（liáu-jiân） ２．巨蛋 =天霸王體育館 ３．小巨蛋 =地霸王體育館
Sa leh oo-pe̍h kóng,
ta̍k-ke mài siū-khì……
Bûn-ta̍t
2009/5/11 Lim
Ko-ūi, cynic, in hôa-gí hoan chòe "憤世嫉俗". Ah lán Tâi-gí leh?
Khai
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
From: 天
Date: 2009-05-22 00:42:27
逐工 teh 無閒，無 thang 回批。 我想，ùi senglí 來思考 lán ê 運動，he sī kài 正確 ê。
聴講香港 ê 廣東文 m̄ sī 三暝三日 ánne chhèng 起來 ê。 第先 kanna 幾 lō 字 chhàng tī 華語文章內 niā'ā。 Koh 來開始 kui 句 kui 句 ánne iā 落去 ê。 Kui 篇文 lóng 用廣東文寫 ê，he sī 無幾 lō 冬前 khah 開始有 ê，kàu taⁿ 還（oân）ná 無 chē。
重点：廣東文 sī 漸漸來 teh 勇 ê。Chitmá tī Tâi'oân，華語文章內底 chhàng hōló 字 ahsī hōló 話句 ê 情形 kám 有 jú 來 jú chē？我感覚有。
Koh 有一 ê 重点：Tī chit khám 站，tī Tâi'oân，nā beh chhuisak hōló lômá 字，senglí 定着 pháiⁿ 做。Ài 先盡量使用漢字，包括華語及漢文內面無 teh 使用 ê 漢字（chhan 像「厝」）。M̄ koh lômá 字 tī 南 pêng（Sengkapo͘ 及 Málai'iá）hoānsè sak 会 tín 動。
Lán nā 有得着一寸，lán 着 koh 來搶 he kui 尺。
M̄ koh kāng chit ê 時間 lán mā 会 sái tī 别位 thâi kui 尺。
Lán ài 相着海外 ê hōló 話 ê 市場：Sengkapo͘、Málai'iá、婆羅洲、Huili̍ppin、閩南，市場 jú 闊 m̄ chiah jú 好。
Tâi'oân 人及 Tâi'oân 文化 tī hiah'ê 所在，名聲実在 bēbái！
＊＊＊
Lán ài 相着 25 - 45 歲 tapo͘ 人 ê 市場。 因為 tapo͘ ê 対 hōló 話 khah 有好感，kā i 看 khah koân，tī Tâi'oân sī ánne，tī Sengkapo͘ mā sī… Lán kám 有才調設一 ê 運動新聞兼看「chhio 母」（súi 西施）ê 電台，行銷 Tâi'oân、閩南、星及馬等等… 着 lah，想着重点：
SEX SELLS.
Pinnn̂g 西施賣 pinnn̂g 賣真 chē。 Hōló 話 mā ài 有西施來 tàu sak--neh。
天
p/s Sī ánchoáⁿ Tâi'oân 当今 30 hoè 以下 ê 小姐人講 hōló 話 lóng 講了真無味。 In ê 性感 lóng 走去 tī in ê 華語內面。 Bat 聴真 chē teh 学華語 ê atokgá teh 講，全世界 siōng 性感 ê 北京話，to̍h sī Tâi'oân ê chabó͘ gínná teh 講 ê。
我有一 pái ùi 閩南泉州 hia 過，in 在地小姐人講 hōló 話講了足性感 ê。 Che 情形実在 sī ài 經過久久長長 ê 時間 chiah 会 tàng koh choāiⁿ 過頭 ê。
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
From: Lim Chun-iok
Date: 2009-05-22 07:19:54
A-Thiⁿ, pêng-an
Goá mā si bô êng kah siūⁿ beh kap lí liân-lo̍k kìⁿ-bīn kóng-oē , tou-ha̍p lóng bē tú-hó.
Taⁿ ūi-tio̍h TGB ê hêng-siau/marketing, lán tio̍h kín chio Tân Pek-tiong k.s. lâi thó-lūn.
Goá ê chhiú-ki sī 0922-429-420. Lí nā hong-piān chhiáⁿ kap goá liân-lo̍k.
Chuniok
2009/5/22 天
逐工 teh 無閒，無 thang 回批。 我想，ùi senglí 來思考 lán ê 運動，he sī kài 正確 ê。
聴講香港 ê 廣東文 m̄ sī 三暝三日 ánne chhèng 起來 ê。
第先 kanna 幾 lō 字 chhàng tī 華語文章內 niā'ā。 Koh 來開始 kui 句 kui 句 ánne iā 落去 ê。 Kui 篇文 lóng 用廣東文寫 ê，he sī 無幾 lō 冬前 khah 開始有 ê，kàu taⁿ 還（oân）ná 無 chē。
重点：廣東文 sī 漸漸來 teh 勇 ê。Chitmá tī Tâi'oân，華語文章內底 chhàng hōló 字 ahsī hōló 話句 ê 情形 kám 有 jú 來 jú chē？我感覚有。
Koh 有一 ê 重点：Tī chit khám 站，tī Tâi'oân，nā beh chhuisak hōló lômá 字，senglí 定着 pháiⁿ 做。Ài 先盡量使用漢字，包括華語及漢文內面無 teh 使用 ê 漢字（chhan 像「厝」）。M̄ koh lômá 字 tī 南 pêng（Sengkapo͘ 及 Málai'iá）hoānsè sak 会 tín 動。
Lán nā 有得着一寸，lán 着 koh 來搶 he kui 尺。
M̄ koh kāng chit ê 時間 lán mā 会 sái tī 别位 thâi kui 尺。
Lán ài 相着海外 ê hōló 話 ê 市場：Sengkapo͘、Málai'iá、婆羅洲、Huili̍ppin、閩南，市場 jú 闊 m̄ chiah jú 好。
Tâi'oân 人及 Tâi'oân 文化 tī hiah'ê 所在，名聲実在 bēbái！
＊＊＊
Lán ài 相着 25 - 45 歲 tapo͘ 人 ê 市場。 因為 tapo͘ ê 対 hōló 話 khah 有好感，kā i 看 khah koân，tī Tâi'oân sī ánne，tī Sengkapo͘ mā sī… Lán kám 有才調設一 ê 運動新聞兼看「chhio 母」（súi 西施）ê 電台，行銷 Tâi'oân、閩南、星及馬等等…
着 lah，想着重点：
SEX SELLS.
Pinnn̂g 西施賣 pinnn̂g 賣真 chē。 Hōló 話 mā ài 有西施來 tàu sak--neh。
天
p/s Sī ánchoáⁿ Tâi'oân 当今 30 hoè 以下 ê 小姐人講 hōló 話 lóng 講了真無味。 In ê 性感 lóng 走去 tī in ê 華語內面。 Bat 聴真 chē teh 学華語 ê atokgá teh 講，全世界 siōng 性感 ê 北京話，to̍h sī Tâi'oân ê chabó͘ gínná teh 講 ê。
我有一 pái ùi 閩南泉州 hia 過，in 在地小姐人講 hōló 話講了足性感 ê。 Che 情形実在 sī ài 經過久久長長 ê 時間 chiah 会 tàng koh choāiⁿ 過頭 ê。
-- 基本人權：使用母語活出台灣人ê尊嚴！ Lim Chun-iok http://sloan.fhl.net(台語點字) http://hakka.fhl.net
Re: Re: [tgb] Re: tiong-kok chiah-sai e chheh-phaiN-a ~~~
From: Lau Seng-hian
Date: 2009-05-22 09:20:27
A天兄：
你講 tsit 幾點我贊同，特別是「漢字」kap「海外」tsit兩點，m̄-koh tsit兩點牽涉著國族認同ê運動手路kap範圍界限，所以我一直無kā講kah足明--ê。
台灣ê現實就是：一般人看著羅馬字，就親像看著英文kāng款驚kah beh siàm屎，叫in o̍h是艱苦tsē-kuà，若漢字--leh，明明比羅馬字khah困難，in suah興tshuh-tshuh bē去排斥，tsit-ê社會現實真無理路，m̄-koh suah是實tú實ê社會現實，若beh kā台語文sak入去社會大眾ê中間（包括有市場ê產品），漢字是無必要mā無應該走閃--ê。Beh tshui-sak羅馬字，tio̍h待時機，m̄-thang為著beh滅漢字，自按呢kā台語文發湠ê火種lóng順phah hua--去。
海外市場，在我來看，只要是講咱ê話--ê，hit-ê方言差無大kah變做兩ê語言ê地區、人民，lóng ta̍t得tī語言、文化、價值觀ê層次去爭取，到時台灣若kā中華民國結果tàn-sak，我甚至感覺無排除hōo任何有意願ê tsiah-ê講仝話ê地區、人民做伙來起國。
除tse以外，kap近代ê民族國家「1語1國」ê型模無仝，現代國家是國籍做認定ê多元組合，台語是台灣主要--ê、自然ê共通語，但是台灣ê成份m̄-nā tsit-ê，tsit點是咱另外ài不時khǹg tī心--ni̍h--ê。
2009/5/22 天
逐工 teh 無閒，無 thang 回批。 我想，ùi senglí 來思考 lán ê 運動，he sī kài 正確 ê。
聴講香港 ê 廣東文 m̄ sī 三暝三日 ánne chhèng 起來 ê。 第先 kanna 幾 lō 字 chhàng tī 華語文章內 niā'ā。 Koh 來開始 kui 句 kui 句 ánne iā 落去 ê。 Kui 篇文 lóng 用廣東文寫 ê，he sī 無幾 lō 冬前 khah 開始有 ê，kàu taⁿ 還（oân）ná 無 chē。
重点：廣東文 sī 漸漸來 teh 勇 ê。Chitmá tī Tâi'oân，華語文章內底 chhàng hōló 字 ahsī hōló 話句 ê 情形 kám 有 jú 來 jú chē？我感覚有。
Koh 有一 ê 重点：Tī chit khám 站，tī Tâi'oân，nā beh chhuisak hōló lômá 字，senglí 定着 pháiⁿ 做。Ài 先盡量使用漢字，包括華語及漢文內面無 teh 使用 ê 漢字（chhan 像「厝」）。M̄ koh lômá 字 tī 南 pêng（Sengkapo͘ 及 Málai'iá）hoānsè sak 会 tín 動。
Lán nā 有得着一寸，lán 着 koh 來搶 he kui 尺。
M̄ koh kāng chit ê 時間 lán mā 会 sái tī 别位 thâi kui 尺。
Lán ài 相着海外 ê hōló 話 ê 市場：Sengkapo͘、Málai'iá、婆羅洲、Huili̍ppin、閩南，市場 jú 闊 m̄ chiah jú 好。
Tâi'oân 人及 Tâi'oân 文化 tī hiah'ê 所在，名聲実在 bēbái！
＊＊＊
Lán ài 相着 25 - 45 歲 tapo͘ 人 ê 市場。 因為 tapo͘ ê 対 hōló 話 khah 有好感，kā i 看 khah koân，tī Tâi'oân sī ánne，tī Sengkapo͘ mā sī… Lán kám 有才調設一 ê 運動新聞兼看「chhio 母」（súi 西施）ê 電台，行銷 Tâi'oân、閩南、星及馬等等…
着 lah，想着重点：
SEX SELLS.
Pinnn̂g 西施賣 pinnn̂g 賣真 chē。 Hōló 話 mā ài 有西施來 tàu sak--neh。
天
p/s Sī ánchoáⁿ Tâi'oân 当今 30 hoè 以下 ê 小姐人講 hōló 話 lóng 講了真無味。 In ê 性感 lóng 走去 tī in ê 華語內面。 Bat 聴真 chē teh 学華語 ê atokgá teh 講，全世界 siōng 性感 ê 北京話，to̍h sī Tâi'oân ê chabó͘ gínná teh 講 ê。
我有一 pái ùi 閩南泉州 hia 過，in 在地小姐人講 hōló 話講了足性感 ê。 Che 情形実在 sī ài 經過久久長長 ê 時間 chiah 会 tàng koh choāiⁿ 過頭 ê。
-- Lau, Seng-hian
～無 koh 在定，ma 無放外外～