----- Original Message ----- From: æ´ªæä» Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 1:46 PM Subject: RE: RE: å¾µæ±é£ç½²
Unsuan è¬è¬ä¾å½ææ Ingcinææä¹æåºè³ªçï¼ä»¥ä¸å¼ç¨ä¾å½ä¸­è·é³æ¨ä¿®æ¹æéçé¨åå¦ä¸ï¼
1) çæ³ä¸ï¼å¡äºæè½å ¼é¡§æ çæ³ãä½æ¯éåæåæ好å¥è«ãæ ãä¹ä¸å­ï¼å¦å馬ä¸è¢«è²¼ä¸ã主è§ãåæãçæ¨ç±¤ãæä»¥ä½ çåç­ä¸­ï¼æè¬ãæææ çãï¼æ好åæ¶ãé­å çç­äººä¹èªªãæå°ç£ãä¸æå°ç£ãï¼æ­£æ¯ä»¥å­ä¹çæ»å­ä¹ç¾ãä¸å»æ¯èª°æ´æå°ç£ï¼ä»ççé ­èªç¶å¤±å»å°è±¡ãä½ ç¬¬ä¸é çæå¾ä¸æ®µè©±ï¼å°±æ許å¤èªç ï¼å°æ¹å®å ¨å¯ä»¥æ¡å樣çç«å ´ã說å樣ç話ã說穿äºï¼é½æ¯çå¡å ¼è£å¤ï¼é½å¸æå æ­¤ä¿éä¸å£ï¼ 2) éåäºæ ä¸éå§å°±ä¸è¬çï¼å¦ä»æ´ç¡å¾è¬çäºã客è§çå¾çä¸èªªï¼æä»éº¼æ¯ä¸è½ãæ¹ãçï¼ä»»ä½ä¸åå°è±¡ãç©ãï¼ä¸å¥½ï¼å¯ä»¥æä¸åï¼å¤§ä¿®ãå°ä¿®ï¼é½æ¯æ¹ï¼ä¸æèçãå¦èµ·çç¶ï¼å¯ä»¥çå»ãå 袱ãçç³¾çºãå°TPLAãæç¾ ãæ¼¢èªæ¼é³é½è¦çºå°è±¡ç©çæåï¼ä½ä¾é幾年å¦è¨±ç³¾çºï¼æåæ¥æ¬äººèªªç好ï¼ä»èªªæ¥æ¬æ¯æ²æå²å­¸çæ°æï¼ä¸æ¦éæ¾éæ¶ã維æ°ï¼ä¸è¬ä»éº¼å¤§éçï¼åå°±æ¯äºã中å人ä¸å®è¦å£é ­ä¸ç­åï¼è¬ä¸å 大éçï¼ç¶­æ°ãé©å½çä¸å ´å»å¾æ²åï¼æ²æè¤ç¾ä¹æï¼ãå²å­¸ï½è£¡åï½éçï¼é·äººå·±æ¼ç¡çãéççæ³¥æ·ï¼ä¸èµ·æ°¸ä¸ä¸å¾è¶ çï¼ 3) 訴諸æ³ç仲è£ï¼æ¯æåä¹æ¯æå¾ç辦æ³ãå°ç°¿å ¬å ä¹ç½·ï¼è¨´è«¸è¼¿è«ãè¾¦å ¬è½æé½å¥½ï¼æè¦ç·æ¿åºãè­æããæ覺å¾Unsuanåçå¾å¥½ï¼ææ²æè­æï¼ä½ è¯å®æ¯æçï¼ä½æ¯æ好å¥ç¨ãå §è¡äººé½ç¥éãçæªè¾­ï¼å½¢åèªç±å¿è­ãé½èªªèé ­ä¸å°ºæç¥æï¼æ³å¾æ¯ä¸æ¡ä¿¡çããå±å¤äººç¶ç¶ä¸äºè§£ãé樣ç話ä¹å¥èªªãå¦åå¤æ¸äººççºãå±å¤äººãï¼ç­æ¼èªå·±ç æè³èãä½ åªæä¸å°è³èï¼è¼æç æï¼æ¿ä»éº¼ç­åï¼ãä¸è¦åæãå»åâ¦â¦ãï¼æ´ç³ç³äºï¼ç­æ¼å°ä¸éè³èå¥éå°æ¹ã å¨æ­¤å°æ¼UnsuanåIngcinçåé¡ä¸ä½µæ¬è¦å¦ä¸ï¼ 1 ææ¥åºåå§æªæ¡ï¼TLPAæó͘1998/01/12å ¬åã 2 éæ¼3)ä»»ç¨å¿è ¹çè­æï¼èª°æ¯è·ä¸»å§ç«å ´ä¸è´ç人ï¼è¦å §è¡äººæç¥éï¼ç«å ´å¯ä»¥å¾ä»å¹³æ¥ç¼è¡¨çè¨è«äºè§£ï¼å¹³æå°å°èªæ¼é³ä¸éå¿ç人æ¯ä¸æäºè§£çï¼æç¸ä¿¡æè²é¨é·é»æ¦®æä¹ä¸ç¥éé­è¯åæ¯ä»éº¼ç«å ´ï¼å¦æä»ç¥éä»æ¯æç¾ ç死硬派ï¼æ該ä¸æè«ä»ç¶ä¸»å§ãå¦åæå¤±å ¬æ­£ï¼å¼ç¼ç­è­°ã 3 éæ¼TLPA大修ãå°ä¿®ï¼èª°ä¾ä¿®çåé¡ãææ³èªªæçåªæç°¡å®çå¹¾é»ã å¾çè«æçæ³ä¸èªªï¼ä½ åé½æ¯å°çãä½æåèå°èªé³æ¨çå調ãå¶å®ãè«ç­ï¼å°ç®ä¹æåå¤å¹´ãæçç¶é©å訴æåé¡ä¸æ¯é£éº¼å®ç´ãæ說幾件æ äºçµ¦å¤§å®¶è½ã 1 å幾年åå°±æä¸æ¹é³æ¨çç¼æè åéå¿è æ¾æå調é³æ¨åé¡ãå¾ä¾æç¼ç¾ææç人é½æ³å æèªå·±çä¸å¥ï¼å¸æå調æè½å¤ æ¿ä»èæ¸ãææ¡å£çæ段æ¯æ§å¶åèªæï¼æ¾ä¸æ¹å黨æ¿ä»èæ¸ï¼ä½¿ä»çæ¹æ¡åæ³åãå¯è¦é³æ¨åé¡ä¸æ¯ç´ç²¹ççæ§åé¡ï¼ç¸ç¶çææ§çãå°±ãæ¨è¡é¢ãèè¨ï¼ç°¡ç´å¯ä»¥èªªæ¯å­¸è¡ç¡ç¨ï¼ 2 å°ç£èªæå­¸æãå¶å®çéç¨ãå®å ¨æ¯ç§æå­¸è¡æ§èæ°ä¸»ç¨åºï¼ç¶æåèç人é½æ²æç¹å®ç«å ´ï¼å®å ¨å°±äºè«äºãå¾çæ§å°ä¸å°ï¼ä½æ¯å³ä½¿å¦æ­¤éæ¯åå°åå°ï¼çè³æäºåèå¶å®ç人å çºå¾ä¾ä¿¡ä»°æ¹è®ï¼èµ°èªå·±çè·¯ï¼ä¹å å ¥åå°é£çãè«çæ§ï¼ä¸ç¢°å°ä¿¡ä»°å°±ç ´åäºã 3 TLPAæ¯å¶å®ï¼ä¸æ¯ä¿®æ¹ãåªæ¯æåçæ¹éæ¯ä»¥ææç¾ é¦¬å­çºãåºç¤æ¹æ¡ãï¼å°±å ¶ç¼ºé»å 以修æ¹ãéç¶æååªä¿®æ¹äºå¹¾åå°æ¹ï¼åºæ¬ä¸è·æç¾ æ²æä¸åï¼ä½æ¯å°ææ人士åç¿æ £ä½¿ç¨è èè¨ï¼éäºä¿®æ¹å·²ç¶æ¯ææ ä¸æ²æ辦æ³æ¥åçäºï¼æ以ææå¾ä¾çå°ç«ãæ說çãææ ãæçæ¯ãå°æ¼é³æ¨çææ ãï¼ä¸æ¯ãå°å°ç£çææ ãã 3 å°ç£èªæå­¸æå¶è¨TLPAæï¼åèçé½æ¯å°èªå°å®¶(並ä¸é¤äºæ以å¤é½æ¯èªæå­¸å士)ï¼ä½æ¯æè²é¨è«ä¾ç è¨ãæ¨è¦é³æ¨æ¹è¨æ¹æ¡ãå°±ä¸å®å ¨æ¯å°ç£èªæçå°å®¶ï¼ä»åçæ¨è¦æ¹æ¡éç¶ä»¥TLPAçºãåºç¤æ¹æ¡ãï¼åä½ä¸é»ä¿®æ¹ï¼å°±æ¯tsæ¹æcï¼tshæ¹æchï¼éè·æç¾ ç¼çè¡çªï¼å çºæç¾ tsæó͘chï¼tshæó͘chhï¼é æè½ç¢¼çå°æ¾ãå¼µè£å®ææå°±å çºéååå è½èæ¯ææç¾ ã 4 é³æ¨æ¯ä¸ç¨®ç¬¦èï¼æ¢ç¶æ¯ç¬¦èï¼å°±æ¯arbitrary(ä»»æç)ãç確ï¼ç¬¦èå¨æåå¶å®æ¯æãçµå°çä»»æã(absolute arbitrary)ï¼ä½ç¶ç¬¦è被社æææ¥åï¼å°±è®æãç¸å°ä»»ææ§ã(relative arbitrary)ï¼(åè¦Saussuree̍course)èªè¨æå­æ¯æ社æç´å®ç符è系統ï¼æåè«çæ¯ã社æç符èãï¼å·²ç¶ç´å®ä¿æçæ±è¥¿å³ä½¿æ¯å°ä¿®ï¼ä¹æ¯ç¸ç¶å´éçäºï¼éå°±æ¯çºä»éº¼æç¾ é麼強çåå°TLPAçåå ã TLPAèªå¶å®ãå ¬å使ç¨è³ä»å·²ç¶æäºå­¸è¡çãæè²ççå ¬å ±è²¡ç¢ï¼10å¹´æç´¯ç©çæç»ä¸æ¯æç¾ 170å¹´å°ï¼å¨é種æ å½¢ä¸ï¼å³ä½¿æ¯å°ä¿®ä¹æ¯ç¸ç¶å´éçäºãæ許å¤èªè¨å­¸å®¶ä¸è«å°é³æ¨ï¼å°±æç´¢ç·ç¾çarbitraryæ¬åºä¾ï¼ä»¥çºé³æ¨åªæ¯ä¸ç¨®ã符èãï¼å¯ä»¥é¨æä»»æä¿®æ¹ï¼å ¶å¯¦æ¯å°ç´¢ç·ç¾ççè«æä¸é»èª¤è§£ã 5 ç¾å¨è«å設é樣çæ æ³ï¼æè²é¨çºäºå¹³æ¯ç´ç­ï¼èè«ä¸æ¹å°ä»»ä½é³æ¨é½æ²æç¹å®ãææ ãçãå ¬æ­£ãèªæ學家ä¾è©å®å種é³æ¨çåªå£ï¼ç¶å¾éæ°å¶å®ä¸å¥é³æ¨ã以çºéå¥é³æ¨æ¯å ¨æ°çï¼æ¯æå¤§å ¬ç´æ¸ï¼å¤§å®¶é½å¯ä»¥æ¥åäºï¼äºå¯¦ä¸ç¶ãçµæåªæ¯æ¿å°èªé³æ¨å¢å ä¸å¥èå·²ãä½ èªªæç¾ æTLPAçæ¯æè ææ¯æéä¸å¥æ°æ¹æ¡åï¼éµå®ä¸æçã æ以æ說æ¢ç¶æåæ¯æTLPAï¼TLPAä¸è½å»¢ï¼å¦æè¦ä¿®ï¼ä¹ä¸è½å¤§ä¿®ãåªè½å°ä¿®ï¼ä¸¦ä¸è¦ç±å°TLPAå §è¡ãæææ ç人ä¾ä¿®ãå¦æ說è¦ä¿®æ¹æç¾ ï¼ä¹éè¦å°æç¾ å §è¡ãæææ ç人ä¾ä¿®ã 6 æåæ該èªè­å°ï¼ä»å¤©å°ç£çé³æ¨åé¡æ¯æç¾ ææææçæ¬å¨æ§ï¼ä¹ææ­·å²æ¬å¨æ§ï¼ä½æ¯TLPAå ·æå­¸è¡æ¬å¨æ§ï¼ä¹ææ¿æ²»æ¬å¨æ§ã社ææ®éæ§ãåªé«æ¹ä¾¿æ§ãåææ å ´ãå¦ææåè¦åèªå æèªå·±ç«å ´ã並æ¡ææé¤å°æ¹ï¼éç½®å°æ¹æ¼æ­»å°ï¼éå°æ¯å°ç£çä¸å¹¸ãä»å¤©å¼èµ·TLPAçåå½æ¯å çºåèªæé­ä¸»å§ä¼åæ¶æ» TLPAçè«è©±ï¼å¦æé­ä¸»å§é¡æåä¸ä¾è§£æ±ºåé¡ï¼æåæ¯æ­¡è¿çã 7 æç¾ åTLPAè·éç¨æ¼é³ççç¾æ¯è¼å¤§ï¼ä¸å®¹æå解ï¼ä½æç¾ åTLPAæ¯è¦ªæï¼çç¾ä¸æ¯å¾å¤§ï¼æ該æå解çå¯è½ãæåæ¾ç¶æåºä¿®æ¹TLPAç建議ï¼è¢«é­æææçµäºãé­ææçæææ¯å¿ é å®å ¨ç¶­è­·æç¾ ï¼æç¾ æ¯å¯ä¸çå°èªæå­ï¼ä¸è½åä»»ä½ä¿®æ¹ï¼å³ä½¿æ¯ãæ¹ä¾¿çãçç¾ é¦¬å­ä¹è¦æ¥åé­æææå¶å®çæç¾ æ¹ä¾¿çï¼ä¸¦ä¸å¦å®æ³å·è åæ¼³å·è 符èçéè¦æ§ãé樣就å®å ¨å¦å®äºTLPAå°æ¼æ¹é²æç¾ ç¼ºé»(på æ¬é»è ¦èçã網路å³è¼¸çæ¹ä¾¿æ§ãæ¹é³æ¨è¨)çåªåãé樣鴨é¸çæ 度ï¼TLPAæ´¾æ¯çµå°ç¡æ³æ¥åçã 8 總ä¹ï¼è«å¤§å®¶åå°åé¡çåé»èåé¡ç實éä¾æèï¼å¦åæ治絲ç棻ãéç¶çè«å¾å¥½ï¼ä½æ¯ä¸è½è§£æ±ºåé¡ã ï¼ï¼Ang Uijin

-----Original Message-----
From: YH KUO [mailto:]
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 6:30 PM
To: æ´ªæä»
Subject: Re: RE: å¾µæ±é£ç½²

Uijin: > 1)æè²é¨å·²æ¼1999å¹´1æ19æ¥å ¬åé©åèªé³æ¨æ¹æ¡(ä¿ç¨±TLPA)

When has it been announced and where? Newspaper? Which one? Many
newspaper? Official?
以ä¸å·²ç¶ä¿®æ¹çº1998/1/12ãè«é²æ¬æ網ç«ï¼

ä¸è¼åå§æªæ¡ã è¬è¬ãæçæææ¯èªªï¹æåå¦æç¥éæ³ä»¤æ³æºå¨åªè£¡ï¹åå¨è²ææ¸ä¸æ該éå 說æã
é樣ææææ´å¤äººäºè§£å¯¦æ å¾è決å®é£ç½²ãæ¨çå©çæ¾åºå ¬å ±ä¸¦ä¸è¼å­¸æ網ç«ä»¥è³
åèæ¯å¾æ­£ç¢ºçè¡åã > 2)å ¶æç¢ççç²¾ç¥ä¸èéé¢ä¸çæ失å°å¯ç³è«å家è³
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Do we have any laws supporting this?
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ãæå ¬å ±è¨­æ½å 設置æ管çæä¹ ç¼ºï¼è´äººæ°çå½ã身é«æ財ç¢åæ害è ï¼å家æ
è² æ害
è³ å責任ãã
èæè²é¨æçºè³ åæ©éã æçæææ¯èªªï¹å¦ææåææ³å¾æ ¹æï¹å°±è¦èªªæï¹ä¸¦è®è®è²æç人ç¥éæåçè²æ
æ¯ææ³å¾æ ¹æçãæ¨éä¸çæ¢æ¬¾ä¼¼ä¹æ¯æ硬é«è¨­åèè¨ãå ¬å ±è¨­æ½çå®ç¾©å¨è©²æ³ä¸­
ææ¯ææ¨æ¢¯ï¹èµ°éç­å ¬å ±è¨­æ½èè¨ï¹ä¸æ¯åï¹ç¬¬äºæ¢åæ¯æ¯è¼åæåå¯ä»¥æåºçæ¯
ææ¢æ¬¾ï¹âå ¬åå¡æ¼å·è¡è·åè¡ä½¿å ¬æ¬åæï¼å æ ææé失ä¸æ³ä¾µå®³äººæ°èªç±ææ¬
å©è ï¼å家æè² æå®³è³ å責任ãå ¬åå¡æ æ¼å·è¡è·åï¼è´äººæ°èªç±ææ¬å©é­åæ害
è 亦åãåé æ å½¢ï¼å ¬åå¡ææ ææé大é失æï¼è³ å義åæ©éå°ä¹ææ±åæ¬ãâ
3)æéä»»ç¨å¿è ¹ï¼æé¤ç°å·±ï¼
Do we have evidence?
ç¶ç¶æï¼å±å¤äººç¶ç¶ä¸äºè§£ï¼ä¸ä¿¡è«åä»»ä½ä¸åå §è¡äººã
詳細åèå§åæå¾ç½ªäººï¼è«ä¸è¦åæï¼å»ååèªæå§å¡å§ã æçææä¸æ¯è³ªçãå°±æ¯å çºç¥éåªæå±å §äººæç¥éï¹æææå¿éå說è©æ給æ¨å¸¶
ä¾éº»ç ©ãå çºï¹æ¨æææ°ä»»ä¸»å§çè¡å¾ï¹å¦ææ²æè¯ç½²çè­æï¹å¾å®¹æ帶ä¾è­­è¬è¨´
è¨ã

4)"äºå¯¦ä¸TLPAèªå ¬å以ä¾å»£å人æ°çæ­¡è¿ï¼ç®åä¹åºçå90%以ä¸é½æ¡ç¨
TLPAæ¨é³ï¼ä¸¦æªç¼çä»»ä½ä¸ä¾¿ä¹èã"
Do we have evidence? Questionnaires?
ç§å­¸ç調æ¥éæ²æãä½æ¯å §è¡äººé½ç¥éã
å æ¯éå®åºç社ç課æ¬å°±æ70%e̍sharea̍
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å ¶ä»ççæ¬é½å¾®ä¸è¶³éã
èÓ͘evidenceå¯ä»¥åï¼ æä¸æ¯è³ªçãææ¯æè­°æåå å ¥è­æï¹å¦ï¹ç¶²è·¯åå·ç­ãé樣è²æææ´æåã > 5)TLPAæ¯ç±å°ç£èªæå­¸æçå­¸è ååæè²é¨æèè«çå°å®¶å­¸è ï¼æ¶éææçæ¼é³
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æ ¹æå°æ¥­çè¨è«ãæ°ä¸»ç決å®ï¼éæ廣çæå¶å®ï¼ä¸¦éééé è»ã
What kind of survey are we talking about? Can we draft out one
proposal to evaluate TLPA? Surely, weknow the advantages and
disadvantages of TLPA?
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) æä¸ç´å¾éå¿åå §çèªè¨çæ³ï¹æä¹ç¥éåå §è¨±å¤å­¸è åèæ­¤æ¹æ¡ï¹æå¨æçè«æ
ä¹æ¯ä½¿ç¨TLPAãä¸ä¹ä¹ä¸å¹´æä¹è³¼æå°ç£é©åèªæ¦è«ä¸æ¸ç è®ï¹æ¯å°ç£èªæå­¸æåº
ççãè主辦å®ä½æ¯è¯åæè²é¨æè²ç 究å§å¡æãæ以æä¹å¾è¨ç°ï¹åå §èªè¨å­¸è
å¦æ¨ï¹è£å¿ å¸ï¹å§æ¦®æ¾ï¹æ¹é¢ç«ï¹æ¹¯å»·æ± ç­æå ¥TLPAç 究ä¹è¾¦çéåèªè¨ç ç¿ãé
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å¿å°ä¾ç人è®æçè«æä¸äºè§£ä»éº¼æ¯TLPAãä»»ä½æ¼é³æ¹æ¡é½æå©å¼ï¹éè¦ä¸æ·ä¿®æ¹ï¹
å°±é£æå沿ç¨å·²ä¹ çè¯èªæ¼é³ä¹æ該è¦éæ°ä¿®è¨äºãæçæææ¯èªªï¹æåæ該è¦æ
åºå¯©æ ¸æ¼é³çä¸äºæ ¹æåæ¹æ³ï¹æè½ææè¨è«ï¹è¡¡éï¹ä¿®æ­£ç­ãç­æï¹ä¸­æï¹é·æ
çç 究ç¼å±è¨åãé樣æ´è½é¡¯ç¤ºTLPAç¼å±çå°æ¥­åå¯é æ§ã > 6)éåæ¹æ¡ä¸ä¸å®æ²æ缺é»ï¼ä¹ä¸ä¸å®ä¸è½ä¿®æ­£ï¼ä½ç¡è«å¦ä½ï¼æåå 決
èªçºåèªææä½ä»»ä½ä¿®æ¹ï¼å¿ é æåºå­¸è¡ä¸ççç±ï¼æ¯å¦ç¶éå¯ä¿¡çèªè¨
å­¸ç調æ¥è­æTLPAç缺失ï¼æç±é³é»å­¸å®¶ç¶éå°æ¥­çè¨è«æåºé³é»å­¸ä¸ç
çè«æ ¹æï¼æ ¹æ缺é»é²è¡ä¿®æ¹ï¼ç¶å°æ¥­çç 究èè¨è«æ±ºå®ä¿®æ¹ã
What kind of survey are we talking about? Can we draft out one
proposal to evaluate TLPA? Surely, we know the advantages and
disadvantages of TLPA?
æèªçºæ該æä¸å調æ¥ï¼èª¿æ¥ï¼
1 ç®åçå°èªåºçæ å½¢ï¼ä½¿ç¨é³æ¨ç種é¡åå ¶ä½æçãå­è¾­å ¸ãæå­¸æåä½ååº
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2 ååé³æ¨ä½¿ç¨çææ³ï¼å¨æå­¸ã使ç¨ä¸ææ²æä»éº¼åªç¼ºé» (éç¶ç¾å¨ç使ç¨è
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Is it ok to inferring to certain members? (legally?) I feel that
an independent survey is needed to investigate this, instead of
the old or the new members. In this way, there will be less
chance of having disputes and bias.
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